924Board.org

[Smoothie]

Which epoxy primer are you using Peter?
I ended up with PPG's "DPLF" (DP40LF - gray-green). I'd made the ~12 mile drive out to get some BASF R-M epoxy primer, but of course they waited 'till I got there to tell me they were out of hardener for it, so I wound up with the PPG stuff. -More expensive than R-M, but allegedly PPG's more experienced with 20 years in the epoxy-primer-that-you-can-body-fill-over business.
Next, I need to decide between using metal preps (phosphate and chrome acid metal cleaner/etches (the PPG "DX" products) or a self-etching wash primer (DX1791) and which (if either) is appropriate for use under the epoxy primer when body filler will be going on top.
..Endless complications times 3 since I'm looking through the 3 paint lines - Martin Senour (NAPA), BASF R-M, and now PPG.
_________________
"..it's made in Germany. You know the Germans always make good stuff."


'82 924T, US version, dark green metallic, 5 speed Audi 016G gearbox

[N-Dub]

Do what I did. Ask your neighbor that painted the Aston Martin in Goldfinger to help you. It's wonderful.
_________________
'79 924 now Totaled! Carrera GT bodywork for sale!
'87 951

[DS-777]

1791 is only good if used on a bare metal. You're not supposed to even sand it because the 1791 has an acid in it that cuts into the metal. It'll work fine under the DP, if thats what you're asking, because you can even mix the DP so it works as a sealer rather than a primer-filler.

We painted a 924 in autobody that we just scuffed the old paint used it like a primer, and then sealed over the top with the DP90LF to get a uniform substrait. The paint turned out beautiful minus some burn throughs in the clear because of some sand-happy botards.
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Gone: 1981 silver 924 w/ black int. and a 5 speed.

[Peter]

Hi Smoothie,
The product line I am using is made by a company called Southern Polyurethanes Inc. (“SPI”). Their site has a lot of good info. http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/homepage.htm
I came across their products a few years back while reading Hotrodders forum. http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/body-exterior/
Do a search on SPI and you will only hear great things. Very inexpensive and very high quality.
You can also go to the SPI Board. http://spi.forumup.org/index.php?mforum=spi
They don’t ship directly, as SPI is a small company. Rather, I purchased SPI products from Baker, one of their distributors. http://www.bakerpbe.com/
Barry Knives (sp?) is the president of SPI, and before I purchased my products, I emailed him. He responded the next day and also gave me his cellular Tel # in case I have any problems while I am actually spraying. He does this for all his customers.
I am following the procedure he outlines in the “perfect Paint Job” guide http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/perfect%20paint.htm
I will spray the SPI epoxy primer next week. http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/Tech%20Sheets/Epoxy%20Primer.htm
I will then do my body work (dent pounding & Rage filler).
Then I will use spray the 2K Regular primer. http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/Tech%20Sheets/2k%20Regular%20Build%20Primer.htm
I will then either spray SPI high gloss black and clear, or have a shop spray Gemini Gray metallic base and then clear. It’s an OEM Porsche color: it’s also the same color as my 924.


I have used a rust remover product from TM Technologies called “Must for Rust,” that I recommend 100%. http://tinmantech.chainreactionweb.com/html/must_for_rust_remover_inhibi.php?cart=58ce34f1afcd0578d8c85a3880111955
The pictures of my car with the paint removed were taken in October when I removed the paint. The car sat outside under a tarp throughout the entire winter and spring with no rust forming thanks to “Must for Rust!” I have bare 931 fenders and 931 doors that have sat in an unheated garage for over TWO years with no rust, thanks to “Must for Rust.”

Below are current pics of my car as it awaits the epoxy spray.



I know I am image happy, but I found this old pic of me in my 924 and a fellow 911 driver at the track several years ago. No, I didn’t hit him.

[OutOfTheBox]

Are you going to fill the rear quarter lights, those horrible round things

Theres no doubt that grey is the best colour, but I dont like those US lights, looks like the guy in the 911 needs them.

Why didn't you hit him, maybe that would have wiped the glum look off his face

[Peter]

[Smoothie]

Looks like you're well on your way.
I wound up going with the PPG DX5__ metal etch treatments instead of the vinyl wash primer. I'm down to bare steel and galvanized surface all over the car (+ of course bare aluminum for the trim, mirrors and bumpers), so although I could go right over bare metals with the epoxy, the etches add still more corrosion protection and improve adhesion. ..Wouldn't make sense for you though as you're leaving some traces of the old paint or primer on.

The epoxy primer followed by hammering has me wondering. It may be tough enough to survive the hammering, but all the same I'd do the hammering first.

If you want to remove those aluminum trim pieces that run over the doors, I found they come off with a putty knife and flat blade screwdriver. Start at the rear and slip the putty knife in from above, gently wiggle till it starts to move (the putty knife and trim of course).. -Then slip the screwdriver behind when there's room. Once it starts moving, it comes off fairly easily and without damage. They're attached to a seam that sticks out at about a 65 degree angle -
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/smoothies931pics/detail?.dir=14dcre2&.dnm=8512re2.jpg&.src=ph
I'm glad I got them off because there was surface rust under both (plus a bunch of sand from the sandblasting I've been doing) -
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/smoothies931pics/detail?.dir=14dcre2&.dnm=95b1re2.jpg&.src=ph .

The old K-mart 11.5' x 11.5 "dining canopy" 's been put to work for working on the sun scorched driveway (it was 98F degrees in the shade under there today) -
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/smoothies931pics/detail?.dir=14dcre2&.dnm=4e23re2.jpg&.src=ph
_________________
"..it's made in Germany. You know the Germans always make good stuff."


'82 924T, US version, dark green metallic, 5 speed Audi 016G gearbox

[OutOfTheBox]

What in the hell was your 924 used for by the previous owner, Smoothie ?

1. a submarine ?
2. an experiment in the effects of acid rain & climate change ?
3. what previous owner, this is my dogs kennel ?



Peter your actually right I ruined my eyes from welding, I have had arc eye, about 4 times now. Argh that waking up inthe midlle of the night with sand in my eyes

Grey vs Black ??? well black as it doesn't reflect light, isn't strictly a colour, but we wont get into that

After examining the photgraphic evidence, of you and the 911, I'm wondering if your not one of those sneaky competitiors, that "nudges" your back out as your going into a corner. I had a friend who always used this tactic, I actually got disqualified at an event, because after I caught him a couple of corners later, I used his vehicle instead of the middle pedal.

Thats what good firends are for.

1. watch your back
2. catch your back
3. back you up
4. slap on the back

.....better watch out this is getting into brokeback teritory

[Peter]

Smoothie, this is as far as I am going to remove parts. The rain gutters are staying. I had a parts car that I removed everything: I just don’t have the strength, patience, desire, etc. to go down to a bare shell. I want it painted do that I can drive it!!!!
Your car looks good. You are definitely down to the bare shell.
When are you spraying your epoxy? I am planning for this Wednesday, but every day thereafter there is a 30% chance of rain here in NYC. I was told that the SPI epoxy sets up in a couple of hours, thereafter, the rain will not do it any harm.

OutOfTheBox, I spoke with the 911 driver after the run. He told me he was trail braking through the turn and the rear got out from under him. You learn by making mistakes.

[N-Dub]

From what I have been told about primer is that it attracts and holds on the moisture. So if I ever get water spray on my car, I am sure to dry it as quickly as possible.
_________________
'79 924 now Totaled! Carrera GT bodywork for sale!
'87 951

[Smoothie]

I'm pretty sure we're all under an acid rain experiment.
No submarine use as far as I know, but it's obvious the previous owner/s were some real sloppy drivers. -But at least they were so mechanically inept that they didn't try any experiments on the engine or electrical system - just drove poorly and punched out the center dash vent and elbowed the center armrest to pieces. I took it down to bare metal and galv. to make sure I wasn't leaving any bad damage repair with rust suprises undiscovered. Looks pretty mean with no paint or bumpers - maybe I'll just metal-etch and clearcoat it - http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/smoothies931pics/detail?.dir=14dcre2&.dnm=338ere2.jpg&.src=ph

I know where you're at with the patience gone, Peter. I've done a few before, so it helped to be aware of what a complete pain in the A it is. More than once while working on large projects I've been told I have "the patience of a saint", but still had to give myself about 11 years rest since the last paint job before getting involved with this one.

I still have to replace a large section behind the left-rear wheel where I cut out a bunch of rust - currently spending a lot of time just sitting there looking at it. Then just a few details still need to be stripped, then I need to sand, metal etch and prime in relatively quick succession, then channel Michaelangelo or Leonardo for some help with a large volume of body filler sculpting.
_________________
"..it's made in Germany. You know the Germans always make good stuff."


'82 924T, US version, dark green metallic, 5 speed Audi 016G gearbox

[OutOfTheBox]

Peter heres some excellent work on ducting for intercoolers. it shows you all the data you need to make a scoop that works with your intercooler.

There is a table that using the size of your IC, you can construct a NACA duct that will supply the correct amount of air.


http://www.rotaryeng.net/how-to-cool12.html

Shows you how to rig up a simple test rig, to test how well your intercooler is actually working.

As opposed to some idiot from overboost, with a heat gun a work bench and a bottle of meths I'm not sure whether the overboost guy was spraying the stuff onto his intercooler or drinking it.

This guy straps his test rig to the roof of his car.

[Peter]

Great link OutOfTheBox!!!!
Gives a lot of information that even the layperson can understand.
I am in the process of painting my car, so I have some time to plan out the best choice of hood scoop and diffuser that I can make with the tools & materials avaialble to me.

[Peter]

Just a quick update.
I ordered some closed cell foam out of which I will sculpt an IC scoop, which will then be glassed over with epoxy resin and S-glass. The IC is 6” * 8”, so the scoop will be approximately that size. However, rather than mounting the scoop to the hood, it will be mounted directly to the IC. Thereby ensuring that all incoming air must pass through the IC.
As for the painting the car, it is slowly progressing nicely. Below are pics of the car sprayed with self-etching black epoxy primer. I am spraying the car with the inexpensive Harbor Freight “purple gun.” Works good and only cost $30.00. I am using SPI products and I am following their manual on how to achieve “The Perfect Paint Job.” http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/perfect%20paint.htm
I purchased one gallon of black epoxy primer ($60.00) and one gallon of activator ($60.00), which results in a two sprayable gallons of epoxy primer. Just let it induce for ½ hour, and did not use any reducer. My impressions are that it sprays and covers well and is easy for a beginner to use. Waiting a day helps the epoxy level out. Pics of my car right after spraying:







Next set of pics are of the sandable gray 2K primer. I relied upon the SPI manual for all instructions. I purchased one gallon of gray 2K Regular primer ($72.30) and one quart of the activator ($24.62), which results in 1 ¼ sprayable gallons of 2K primer. No reducer was used and no induction time is required. My impressions once again are that it sprays and covers well and is easy for a beginner to use. However, it begins to set-up quickly, so don’t mix more than 2 coats worth at any one time. Once again, waiting at least a day before sanding ( I still haven’t begun to sand) helps the primer level out. Pics of my car right after spraying:







Presently, the car sits outside and the sun will help cure all the primers. I should begin block sanding next week. But, I am NOT attempting to achieve a concourse paint job. Rather, I am just after the experience of having done it by myself! Therefore, I am not devoting a lot of hours to block sanding. It’s a track car after all.

I will paint the car high gloss black using SPI products. One gallon of black basecoat ($75.00) with one gallon of very slow reducer ($30.77), results in two sprayable gallons. A gallon of their universal clear ($76.52) with one gallon of their slow activator ($86.00), once again results in 2 sprayable gallons. The prices for SPI products are really great and I have been very pleased with their quality and the customer service that I have gotten. The president of the company, Barry Kives, answers my emails directly! ( He does this for all his customers).
Hopefully by the end of summer I will have a shinny black 931 complete with hood scoop.
I will post pics as I go along.

[-nick]

lookin' good! I don't envy you though, painting is a royal pain. One thing I learned was to up the pressure when you shoot the clear. That let the clear lay down a little smoother for me. And also to be sure to lay on enough coats of clear to have plenty of room to sand out the orange peel and buff afterwards without burning through.

Enjoy!