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Oil Pan Baffle???
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15451
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:29 pm    Post subject: Oil Pan Baffle??? Reply with quote

Why is there no mention anywhere on this site of oil pan baffles??? Is there a mechanical reason that pan baffles can't be used on our cars? I'm specifically interested in the 931...so perhaps some of the turbo oil line plumbing is an issue?

This technique is used by all the big block guys here in Motown to prevent the crank from having to slosh thru the oil...which seems like a particularly good thing on a small 2L that uses 15W50 oil! I am planning to put a scraper in on the wide body project, but I'd like to know if there is any reason a baffle system in the pan wouldn't be advisable.

I understand that for some folks, the cost of having a custom baffle setup welded into the aluminum pan might be a deterrent...but at this point, I'm more interested in what the conceptual mechanical objections might be...
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bass gt  



Joined: 02 Dec 2004
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Location: Johannesburg for now!!

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No objections at all!! I have the sumps in my race engines baffled.
Next up is a windage tray, to seperate the crank from the oil.
Do it, it makes sense

Steve
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Cdric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive got a scrapter in the turbo engine wich im building at the moment.

www.crank-scrapers.com/

He can help you with windage tray. He wanted to borrow my engine block to do the measuring but unfortunatley im at the other side of the atlantic. Ask him, hi might have it done by now. and for the baffels, the original pan isnt that bad. I havent had any problem with oil starvation. And i have done lots of laps on several race tracks on race rubber without any problems.
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924RACR  



Joined: 29 Jul 2001
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Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As noted, the stock pan is very good in this regard - it's not a POS stamped steel bucket like the local stuff. That plus the crank scraper or windage tray, you're in pretty good shape - though I personally recommend an accusump for true race use.
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
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Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 12:36 am    Post subject: What about a Racing Vacuum Pump??? Reply with quote

Yeah, I've talked to the guys at Crank Scrapers, and I'm having them make a custom scraper. My crank has been stroked, and my rods are custom made as well, so I want the scraper profile to match precisely.

I have a friend who is a welder by trade. He has all kinds of metal stock available to him (most of which he won't charge me for), and he has MIG & TIG in his mobile setup, so I can have him do any sort of custom fabrication I need for less than union-scale hourly rates. I'll probably have him help me with the baffling.

The biggest bang-for-the-buck route seems to be scraper+baffles+accusump (VS, I was already planning to go with the 3-qt. Canton setup). A dry sump setup just seems to be too expensive ... by my estimates, a complete system would end up costing somewhere in the neighborhood of $2500.

However, Kevin Johnson @ Crank Scrapers recommended that I investigate a "Racing Vacuum Pump" available from GZ Motorsports. Based on what I've read, these units increase the atmospheric vacuum in the crankcase, which is theoretically beneficial for a high-boost application like mine. The cost appears to be about half that of a dry sump, but about double the scraper-baffle-accusump approach. Any opinions on this approach???
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Min  



Joined: 04 Nov 2002
Posts: 2368
Location: Vernon, British Columbia, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 4:58 am    Post subject: Re: What about a Racing Vacuum Pump??? Reply with quote

ideola wrote:
However, Kevin Johnson @ Crank Scrapers recommended that I investigate a "Racing Vacuum Pump" available from GZ Motorsports. Based on what I've read, these units increase the atmospheric vacuum in the crankcase, which is theoretically beneficial for a high-boost application like mine. The cost appears to be about half that of a dry sump, but about double the scraper-baffle-accusump approach. Any opinions on this approach???


The way I understand it, the vaccum pump's function is to prevent your oil seals from blowing oil out from the large amounts of crankcase pressure that you will build having a large boost setup. It also helps seal your rings. From my understanding, you would want a vaccum pump and a baffle/crankscaper/windagetray setup.

Are you planning on installing oil sprayers?

Min
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
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Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 5:17 am    Post subject: Re: What about a Racing Vacuum Pump??? Reply with quote

Min wrote:
Are you planning on installing oil sprayers?


At this point, I haven't considered it. I'm not too familiar with how they work...can you enlighten me or point me to some references?
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Min  



Joined: 04 Nov 2002
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:54 am    Post subject: Re: What about a Racing Vacuum Pump??? Reply with quote

ideola wrote:

At this point, I haven't considered it. I'm not too familiar with how they work...can you enlighten me or point me to some references?


They are oil nozzles that spray oil on the bottom of your pistons. This provides extra cooling to the pistons, which can prevent detonation, allow you to run more boost, prevent premature piston failure, etc.

Min
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Smoothie  



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting concept (sprayers), but something's telling me that they'd be a lot of extra work and complication (or are they something that just fits in place of the squirters that're already there?). Detonation and other piston stressors would be much more effectively handled from the other side with intercooling, water injection, high octane, correct timing, etc., right?
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Lizard  



Joined: 03 Nov 2002
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Location: Abbotsford BC. Canada

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldnt bother with the squirters, they cause airation problems,

I also wouldnt bother dry sumping the 924 engine as it doesnt have the rod bearing issues the 944/928 engines have.
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Min  



Joined: 04 Nov 2002
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Location: Vernon, British Columbia, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smoothie wrote:
Interesting concept (sprayers), but something's telling me that they'd be a lot of extra work and complication (or are they something that just fits in place of the squirters that're already there?). Detonation and other piston stressors would be much more effectively handled from the other side with intercooling, water injection, high octane, correct timing, etc., right?


Personally I don't look at it like that, I feel that when your starting to get the most out of your motor, you should be doing anything that can help. Oil sprayers won't interfere with intercooling, water injection, or high octane, so, why not use them as well?

as for the 'work' required to get them functioning, well, that all depends on how you end up doing it.

Min
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Smoothie  



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lizard wrote:
I wouldnt bother with the squirters,

You meant to say "sprayers", right? (of course) We already have "squirters" -
http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=16341



Yeah I wasn't thinking in terms of them interfering with intercooling, water injection, etc. Just that sprayings' effect on cylinder temp. would be small in comparison with those other things. -But go for it if you want to do everything possible and then some.
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Min  



Joined: 04 Nov 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ya, I knew those were there, however, I'd be concerned about the amount of fluid they are actually sending at the piston. I'd be interested to know.

Min
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Min  



Joined: 04 Nov 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh, and on the rebuild I just did, they were plugged full of carbon on all rods. I had to clean them out.

Min
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Smoothie  



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very good point, then they should be cleaned out whenever possible - when rebuilding or just replacing the con rod bearings from the bottom..

Another thing occurs to me - that those squirters would probably only give one quick squirt per revolution (spm's = rpm's ) as the hole in the cranks' con rod journal passes the hole in the con rod, right?
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Last edited by Smoothie on Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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