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My second Microsquirt conversion - now started - H Prod car
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924RACR  



Joined: 29 Jul 2001
Posts: 8846
Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA

PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2024 8:52 pm    Post subject: My second Microsquirt conversion - now started - H Prod car Reply with quote

Kicked off the conversion of the H Prod (nee ITB) #77 924 on Monday by switching over the ignition system. Fueling is still by CIS, for now, but distributor is out, replaced with the same 4-tower VW/Bosch coil as I used on my Turbo conversion.

Up and running well with a copied-over cal from the Turbo; testing Thursday on track to see how she goes, verify improvement in reliability and consistency over the tired old stock setup.

Conversion was accomplished using the Danst Engineering crank sensor kit. Had to do a little fettling; the trigger wheel had some burrs I didn't care for, so sanded those clean, and I had to shave down the sensor spacers a touch (maybe 1mm) so the barrel of the sensor cleared the inner v-belt pulley on the crank. Otherwise plenty happy with the kit; belt alignment looks spot on.

As noted, we'll run it for a little on the mix of MS ignition and original CIS fueling; when I have more time I'll swap in the fuel rail and finish the conversion. Still have to work up the mounts for the (Honda) rail, then it's just more plumbing and wiring.

Will continue to post updates here; don't know that we'll actually have a chance to race it this year with full EFI conversion, due to my racing and work travel schedule, but for sure it'll be done before winter and ready to rock first thing next season!

Busy racing? YES! Just got back from Road America the preceding weekend with my P2 Prototype; very good weekend, very productive, gained another 2s and got into the 2:11's, which puts us at the tail end of the fast guys. Still work to do, but we know where we can get the speed, and plan to at least have a little more on the table to work with come the Runoffs in October. Will be posting some great in-car video to my stream later - just search for my username on Youtube.
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Vaughan Scott
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'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
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Fifty50Plus  



Joined: 28 Feb 2008
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Location: Washington DC area

PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2024 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vaughan,
Sounds exactly like the setup I'm helping my friend, Matti, install in his 924 race car. We are putting the engine, TT, rear susp and tranny (snailshell) in his car next week. He has the crank trigger on and has sourced a Honda fuel rail. Still looking at digital injectors to go with the MegaSquirt ane he will have to find someone besides me (luddite) to set that part up.
Go fast and prosper,
Chuck
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1979 924 NA race car
1982 924 NA race car - Sold
1982 924 Turbo almost a PoS
1981 924 Turbo a real PoS, new engine
1982 924 Turbo nice body, blown engine
1972 911 E race car - going to Vintage
Various 944s to become IT-S race car
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924RACR  



Joined: 29 Jul 2001
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Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2024 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ugh, SO worth it. Car ran wonderfully, misfires are banished and as expected so much better driveability etc. for paddock and out/in-laps...

Dunno about more power, of course, but effectively we are since we have a clean, consistent spark and timing now.

Next steps: get the CAN output integrated with the AIM dash/logger, and then get that fuel rail on and complete the conversion.

Meanwhile, I also have a prototype to prep for the Runoffs in two months...

Sadly, we won't have time to race the car this year. The next race weekend at Waterford overlaps with upcoming work travel, and the only one after that is scheduled on top of the Runoffs at Road America. This weekend is actually a race weekend too, but we don't have any decent tires and the driver isn't mentally ready to go from 0 to racing quite that quickly - we'd have to be towing to the track and setting up tonight!

But a weekend off, for me, would be appreciated and overdue - we were only just at Road America last weekend!

Oh, and a few pics and video on the PUB Racing page on FB, if you haven't followed already...
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100057231507099
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Vaughan Scott
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Rasta Monsta  



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2024 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about a photo of the sensor mount and wheel?
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924RACR  



Joined: 29 Jul 2001
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Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA

PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2024 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good point; I added some pics of the install on the 924 FB thread...
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2215735825
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Vaughan Scott
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2024 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't do Facebook but Matti bought his kit from an English Co and the trigger wheel on the crank came with spacers the same width for behind the water pump and alternator pulleys. All line up.
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1979 924 NA race car
1982 924 NA race car - Sold
1982 924 Turbo almost a PoS
1981 924 Turbo a real PoS, new engine
1982 924 Turbo nice body, blown engine
1972 911 E race car - going to Vintage
Various 944s to become IT-S race car
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924RACR  



Joined: 29 Jul 2001
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Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA

PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2024 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, that'd be the Danst Engineering kit. I'll work on getting some photos onto here to include in this thread...

I found the trigger wheel had some burrs on it from the cutting process, I cleaned those up, and also wanted to shave the spacers for the sensor itself down a bit, as the sensor was touching the backside of my crank pulley. Other pulley configurations would probably be fine, but mine has two V pulleys on it, so less ideal...

I ended up not even using the alternator pulley spacer, mine lined up fine.

All in all, quite happy with the kit; the most important bit, the sensor mount, is quite solid and well worked-out.
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Vaughan Scott
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924RACR  



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2024 8:37 pm    Post subject: Pic dump Reply with quote

Rennlist photo thread here...
https://rennlist.com/forums/924-and-931-forum/1422781-924-2-0l-na-racecar-microsquirt-conversion-pics.html#post19566967

Crank trigger detail:

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Vaughan Scott
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924RACR  



Joined: 29 Jul 2001
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2024 8:09 am    Post subject: Stage two: full EFI Reply with quote

We are there! First fire early this evening. Will drop a video on FB.

Still have to properly plumb the fuel supply - have some cobbled hoses in there that are leaking - and other tidying of wiring, clean up some loose ends, then we can take a rip down the block, make sure everything's decent.

Just in time for the Woodward Dream Cruise, when laws are scoffed at by all!!

Also need to come up with an air filter setup; will probably rework the stock airbox to keep using the stock air filter, just hollowed out and ducted right to the throttle body through the stock air boot - will help to ensure we don't just blow out the sound limits at the track!!
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Vaughan Scott
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'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype
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Mclaren924  



Joined: 13 Oct 2021
Posts: 199
Location: California

PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2024 12:53 am    Post subject: Re: My second Microsquirt conversion - now started - H Prod Reply with quote

924RACR wrote:
Kicked off the conversion of the H Prod (nee ITB) #77 924 on Monday by switching over the ignition system. Fueling is still by CIS, for now, but distributor is out, replaced with the same 4-tower VW/Bosch coil as I used on my Turbo conversion.

Up and running well with a copied-over cal from the Turbo; testing Thursday on track to see how she goes, verify improvement in reliability and consistency over the tired old stock setup.

Conversion was accomplished using the Danst Engineering crank sensor kit. Had to do a little fettling; the trigger wheel had some burrs I didn't care for, so sanded those clean, and I had to shave down the sensor spacers a touch (maybe 1mm) so the barrel of the sensor cleared the inner v-belt pulley on the crank. Otherwise plenty happy with the kit; belt alignment looks spot on.

As noted, we'll run it for a little on the mix of MS ignition and original CIS fueling; when I have more time I'll swap in the fuel rail and finish the conversion. Still have to work up the mounts for the (Honda) rail, then it's just more plumbing and wiring.

Will continue to post updates here; don't know that we'll actually have a chance to race it this year with full EFI conversion, due to my racing and work travel schedule, but for sure it'll be done before winter and ready to rock first thing next season!

Busy racing? YES! Just got back from Road America the preceding weekend with my P2 Prototype; very good weekend, very productive, gained another 2s and got into the 2:11's, which puts us at the tail end of the fast guys. Still work to do, but we know where we can get the speed, and plan to at least have a little more on the table to work with come the Runoffs in October. Will be posting some great in-car video to my stream later - just search for my username on Youtube.


I know im a little late to this one but I had the exact same issues with my danst trigger wheel kit, as well as the standoffs for the bracket were different diameters with noticeably unmatched dimensions and finish. Honestly was a little disappointed by how rough the overall kit was, nothing fit until some extreme deburring was done. For 150$ for off some shelf parts and plasma/water jet cut parts, I expected a higher level finish, but that could be my inner machinist coming out on something that isn't super critical.
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1980 924 "Donnie" (Parts car)-DEAD
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924RACR  



Joined: 29 Jul 2001
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Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA

PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2024 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine wasn't as bad as yours; save for the spacer length issue, it was ready to drop in as-is. Again, a different crank pulley may have been fine without work.

Meanwhile, I continue to make progress - pics posted to my rennlist thread. EFI half of the conversion is done now as well, can is running on full Microsquirt EFI with the Honda steel fuel rail.

Initial drop-in of the Turbo cal seemed good and ran immediately, but seems the mapping is still well off-target so I have more work to do on the tuning. But that's the easy part, relatively...
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Vaughan Scott
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'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype
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924RACR  



Joined: 29 Jul 2001
Posts: 8846
Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA

PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2024 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beautiful day testing yesterday at the racetrack, now with full Microsquirt EFI.

Only hiccups were not issues with the EFI itself; the WBO2 sensor continued to be flaky, and isn't clearing; think I'll be swapping out the gauge head (as I have a spare - both are Innovate MTX-L) to see if that clears the issues. The other pain was the clutch cable lever apparently slipping out of place on the release lever shaft, preventing the clutch from working; a bit of sweating under the car and under the dash got it all sorted and back out on track.

Posted a quick drive-by video on the FB 924/944/968 Racecars group.

Runs clean and great, much better starting (even with the Prod cam) and driveability now, even when cold.

Still needs dialing in of the tune for optimal performance; it's in a safe state without the usual high amounts of ignition advance.

Next steps are to maybe flush the fuel system back to 93 pump gas and get some dyno tuning time; we can now get 100 octane race gas locally, but 93 would be cheaper and we're not chasing championships.

So some dyno time once the WBO2 is working properly... then more on-track learning/optimization.

Another nice upgrade is now the Microsquirt ECU is CAN networked to the AIM dash - was stupid easy, just connect two wires and update the dash config - so now all the ECU data is logging there, even without a laptop installed. So I have copious amounts of detailed data to analyze... which is wonderful.

But that's all next-year tasks; now 110% push to compete preparing the other racecar for the Runoffs end of Sept!!
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Vaughan Scott
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Fifty50Plus  



Joined: 28 Feb 2008
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Location: Washington DC area

PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2024 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vaughan,
Congrats on getting the 924 upgraded. I'm curious as to whether an 11:1 engine will run good on 93 octane. 100 is now $16 a gallon here.
Good luck with the Runoffs push and it looks like H-Prod has made the cut for 2025 and beyond.
Chuck
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1979 924 NA race car
1982 924 NA race car - Sold
1982 924 Turbo almost a PoS
1981 924 Turbo a real PoS, new engine
1982 924 Turbo nice body, blown engine
1972 911 E race car - going to Vintage
Various 944s to become IT-S race car
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Beartooth  



Joined: 05 Apr 2022
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Location: Roberts, MT

PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2024 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

$16/gallon? Ouch! You gotta do what you gotta do if you're racing, but that would add up quick. An alternative: you can drive right up to the pump at a local airport and buy 100 low-lead... or so I hear... Definitely not legal for highway use, but I'd think it comes down to state laws and the rule-book when it comes to off-highway use; might be an option.
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924RACR  



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2024 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leaded is useless in proper engine tuning - it kills O2 sensors. Otherwise we would mix the 110 leaded race gas, which we can readily get at pumps in Detroit, with 93 pump gas. But even that's NFG, that's what we've been doing and it's been driving the sensors batty.

Oh, and my bike motors are 11.5:1 stock and run on pump gas, so I have hope! LOL
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#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype
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