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Cedric
Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 2762
Location: Sweden
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 Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2022 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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Its easier to have the hot parts in one place, otherwise its easy to get lots of issues with other sorrounding parts getting melted and overheating, so even though its hard most people have the turbo fairly close to the standard position. Having it 944 style is probably the worst possible for turbo response, and will need lots of shielding and complicated piping. I actually did some engine simulation with that setup, it moved the power band quite a bit.
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1980 924 Turbo
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Mike9311
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1797
Location: Chicago-ish
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| Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2022 1:05 am Post subject: |
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BassGT and a few others have it upfront. Bass ran two turbos as far as I can remember depending on where he was racing with one at 400hp
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1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA ohne 650 mit 471
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car |
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Mike9311
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1797
Location: Chicago-ish
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Mclaren924
Joined: 13 Oct 2021
Posts: 245
Location: Oceanside CA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2023 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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Well I finally feel confident in my abilities tig welding that I wont destroy my stock exhaust manifolds. I plan on using a V-Band housing for the inlet and using a band saw to cut the old flange off and replace with probably a 3 inch vband flange but that I still haven't quite decided on because of turbo selection. I say 3 inch because that seems to be the size for most of the turbos in the range of power i'm looking for. Looking for something capable of 30 psi max but still having the ability to spool somewhat quickly. It will live its life at 10 or slightly more to start off life but I don't want to worry about pushing the envelope later when I want more. Recommendations and advice always much appreciated Large China intercooler will be accompanying this setup as well as e85 and potentially a meth injection setup to help fight off detonation. Cheers for all the advice guys and happy holidays!
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1980 931 "Salt" Bucket wannabe racer (Dreaming)
1979 924 Sebring "Pepper" -Sold
1977 924 Slicktop "Pennie"-Most likely parts
1979 3/5 gt clone 924- Shop Test Car |
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safe
Joined: 18 Mar 2017
Posts: 688
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2023 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Mclaren924 wrote: | | Well I finally feel confident in my abilities tig welding that I wont destroy my stock exhaust manifolds. I plan on using a V-Band housing for the inlet and using a band saw to cut the old flange off and replace with probably a 3 inch vband flange but that I still haven't quite decided on because of turbo selection. I say 3 inch because that seems to be the size for most of the turbos in the range of power i'm looking for. Looking for something capable of 30 psi max but still having the ability to spool somewhat quickly. It will live its life at 10 or slightly more to start off life but I don't want to worry about pushing the envelope later when I want more. Recommendations and advice always much appreciated Large China intercooler will be accompanying this setup as well as e85 and potentially a meth injection setup to help fight off detonation. Cheers for all the advice guys and happy holidays! |
With e85 you won't have any detonation issues.  Just boost until cylinder pressures break stuff!
3" v-band seams pretty large for a turbo inlet. 3" is ~45 cm2 and a T3 flange is ~26cm2, a 2.5" is ~31 cm2, 2" ~20 cm2 (sorry for the metric...)
But it may be how turbos come, even smaller ones, and it probably just necks down more. But If you can weld you can fit a v-band to any turbo you like.
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/Magnus, Stockholm Sweden
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Porsche 924 -79 NA, EFI and Turbo.
Porsche 931 -79
Porsche 911 -77, 3.2 Targa
Porsche 911 -69, 3.6, Coupe |
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Mclaren924
Joined: 13 Oct 2021
Posts: 245
Location: Oceanside CA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2023 1:30 am Post subject: |
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| safe wrote: | | Mclaren924 wrote: | | Well I finally feel confident in my abilities tig welding that I wont destroy my stock exhaust manifolds. I plan on using a V-Band housing for the inlet and using a band saw to cut the old flange off and replace with probably a 3 inch vband flange but that I still haven't quite decided on because of turbo selection. I say 3 inch because that seems to be the size for most of the turbos in the range of power i'm looking for. Looking for something capable of 30 psi max but still having the ability to spool somewhat quickly. It will live its life at 10 or slightly more to start off life but I don't want to worry about pushing the envelope later when I want more. Recommendations and advice always much appreciated Large China intercooler will be accompanying this setup as well as e85 and potentially a meth injection setup to help fight off detonation. Cheers for all the advice guys and happy holidays! |
With e85 you won't have any detonation issues. Just boost until cylinder pressures break stuff!
3" v-band seams pretty large for a turbo inlet. 3" is ~45 cm2 and a T3 flange is ~26cm2, a 2.5" is ~31 cm2, 2" ~20 cm2 (sorry for the metric...)
But it may be how turbos come, even smaller ones, and it probably just necks down more. But If you can weld you can fit a v-band to any turbo you like. |
3 inches seemed to be the common size for the middle range tubros, truthfully i'm not looking for a small one lol. Time to spool is always a concern but there are some clever answers for this with how I plan to use the car. I need to decide on what Ecu im running and then I can also start to find flex fuel setups and begin setting up EFI. Vaughn found that steel honda k24(I think) fuel rails can bolt directly to auddi tt injectors which fit our 931 heads. I'm thinking of using this method and seeing what it is capable of with ethanol, will use AN line for rest of car most likely.
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1980 931 "Salt" Bucket wannabe racer (Dreaming)
1979 924 Sebring "Pepper" -Sold
1977 924 Slicktop "Pennie"-Most likely parts
1979 3/5 gt clone 924- Shop Test Car |
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924RACR
Joined: 29 Jul 2001
Posts: 8982
Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2023 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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2.2 and 2.4L Honda yes - not sure about K24, I don't know Hondas that well.
But the Audi TT injectors are just for the NA application; for the 931, pretty certain you'll want the 997 Turbo injector Bosch PN 0 280 158 123 - 627cc/min vs. 365 for the Audi TT injector # 0 280 155 892.
Both are long-nose, as depicted in my posts on FB, and so will get into the air flow in the intake with the stock location...
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Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype |
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Mclaren924
Joined: 13 Oct 2021
Posts: 245
Location: Oceanside CA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2023 1:42 am Post subject: |
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| 924RACR wrote: | 2.2 and 2.4L Honda yes - not sure about K24, I don't know Hondas that well.
But the Audi TT injectors are just for the NA application; for the 931, pretty certain you'll want the 997 Turbo injector Bosch PN 0 280 158 123 - 627cc/min vs. 365 for the Audi TT injector # 0 280 155 892.
Both are long-nose, as depicted in my posts on FB, and so will get into the air flow in the intake with the stock location... |
Thank you for clarifying for me 924, Appreciate the part numbers too lol. I believe the k24 is a 2.4L so maybe they are the same but i truthfully don’t known much about Honda. If it came out of a CRV it’s a k but there could very well be another 2.4l Honda made that my pea brain isn’t aware of, Hondas made a lot of damn motors lol
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1980 931 "Salt" Bucket wannabe racer (Dreaming)
1979 924 Sebring "Pepper" -Sold
1977 924 Slicktop "Pennie"-Most likely parts
1979 3/5 gt clone 924- Shop Test Car |
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safe
Joined: 18 Mar 2017
Posts: 688
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2023 3:03 am Post subject: |
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Go with bigger injectors if you are planning to use E85. My 980cc taps out at 400ish hp
BOSCH 0 280 158 040 go bigger than you think you need.
These are short body, extended tip. Stainless and ethanol compatible.
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/Magnus, Stockholm Sweden
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Porsche 924 -79 NA, EFI and Turbo.
Porsche 931 -79
Porsche 911 -77, 3.2 Targa
Porsche 911 -69, 3.6, Coupe |
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Mclaren924
Joined: 13 Oct 2021
Posts: 245
Location: Oceanside CA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2023 3:47 am Post subject: |
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| safe wrote: | Go with bigger injectors if you are planning to use E85. My 980cc taps out at 400ish hp
BOSCH 0 280 158 040 go bigger than you think you need.
These are short body, extended tip. Stainless and ethanol compatible. |
This is what I was looking for, thank you very much Safe. This car will probably live its whole life on e85 other than maybe initial tuning to get car running on waste gate and making sure it is in a good place to move forward to actually make power. I just got a free engine stand off a buddy because "it didn't roll very well" and funny enough it rolls better than my 3 others lmao. Tomorrow I think I will assemble a test block and head that's empty and begin to tinker with stock exhaust manifold alterations and maybe custom exhaust manifolds all together. Want to figure out how much space I'm dealing with and how that will effect turbo placement and size/choice. Any of you aftermarket turbo in stock location guys have experiences with exasperated heat issues in the turbo due to it being so close to the block? Maybe more lag due to heatsink or harsher on components due to it being hotter? Could worry a thing to death I suppose but I bet there's a lot of you who know way more than I do about this so why not ask
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1980 931 "Salt" Bucket wannabe racer (Dreaming)
1979 924 Sebring "Pepper" -Sold
1977 924 Slicktop "Pennie"-Most likely parts
1979 3/5 gt clone 924- Shop Test Car |
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safe
Joined: 18 Mar 2017
Posts: 688
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2023 5:43 am Post subject: |
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Forgot to mention, the BOSCH 0 280 158 040, they are from Bosch Motorsport and need to be purchased from a reputable vendor that does flow matching, because they don't come matched from Bosch and can have a ~10% difference between injectors otherwise.
They aren't expensive.
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/Magnus, Stockholm Sweden
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Porsche 924 -79 NA, EFI and Turbo.
Porsche 931 -79
Porsche 911 -77, 3.2 Targa
Porsche 911 -69, 3.6, Coupe |
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Mclaren924
Joined: 13 Oct 2021
Posts: 245
Location: Oceanside CA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2023 4:49 am Post subject: |
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| safe wrote: | Forgot to mention, the BOSCH 0 280 158 040, they are from Bosch Motorsport and need to be purchased from a reputable vendor that does flow matching, because they don't come matched from Bosch and can have a ~10% difference between injectors otherwise.
They aren't expensive. |
I found an auzzie company that sells that for a competitive price so I reached out to them to see if they flow match them. Yesterday I got the test motor on the stand and the stock manifold bolted up and almost instantly I began to see issues with the small inlet size and how little space there is to fit bigger turbos in that stock location. Ease of access, size constraints, heat, and overall performance improvement is pointing me in the direction of making my own manifold. LILdude already sent me the flange file he used for his and I spent better part of morning trying to get it into right file format to be cut online by a water jet company. Still trying actually lol. Probably will have a few made at around 1.5 mm thickness and once finished welding I'll have the back milled flat. Waiting on sendcutsend for a response about the file loading issue and we will see how it goes.
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1980 931 "Salt" Bucket wannabe racer (Dreaming)
1979 924 Sebring "Pepper" -Sold
1977 924 Slicktop "Pennie"-Most likely parts
1979 3/5 gt clone 924- Shop Test Car |
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Mclaren924
Joined: 13 Oct 2021
Posts: 245
Location: Oceanside CA
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| Posted: Sat May 25, 2024 11:18 am Post subject: |
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Well it's been a while since I've posted but life has been crazy busy. Finally got my Sebring up for sale and out of my hair so I have more time (not really) to work on this lol. Past couple months I've been lucky enough to find a program teaching machining in manual and cnc formats. Long boring story later, I've finally got turbo exhaust manifold flanges. It took a solid week of cad and cam to get it coming out right but I'm very pleased with the results using 304 Stainless Steel. I will drop some photo links below. Big shout out to lildude4life for sending over his cad version, while I didn't use his. It made it a lot easier to reverse engineer mine and not have to fumble with the old crusty manifold. For those who care how I did it, I used a fixture plate with the profile inset and a datum to 0 the part. Hand made the set screws real quick and off we went cutting aluminum. The aluminum is much softer and our haas tmp-1 cuts it like butter so it's an excellent material to test the runs operations with. After finding an error in my cam profile that caused the boring operations to be offset from the 0 making them looking lopsided, I moved onto stainless steel and put on my ear protection lol. Took about 4 hours to cut this one flange and will probably take 3 for the next one with some updated cutting profiles and speeds. All in all I plan on using the aluminum ones to do a test manifold and see different configs and how I like. Ultimately using it as a jig later to make the stainless version. I will link the cad and cam file soon once I'm done making the second and all goes smoothly. Interestingly enough I learned through this that the flange pattern on the na and turbo head are different, so my next stop will be doing the na head as well. On the EFI project side I've found the Honda 2.4L does in fact appear to be a direct fit with correct injectors, still struggling to find a decent supplier for injectors and what injectors specifically to use but that's still ways away. Maxecu Mini is here along with the danst trigger wheel kit so hopeful to have this beast running by end of year. Happy memorial day weekend everyone!
https://imgur.com/a/YKidz7X
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1980 931 "Salt" Bucket wannabe racer (Dreaming)
1979 924 Sebring "Pepper" -Sold
1977 924 Slicktop "Pennie"-Most likely parts
1979 3/5 gt clone 924- Shop Test Car |
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