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931 Head Installation Thread
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bureau13  



Joined: 07 Sep 2017
Posts: 480
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info! I used the bristle disc thing on a die grinder and it seemed to do a good job. I used a light touch, so nothing would actually get rounded off....there were a few areas I couldn't get as well as I wanted, it was just too hard to access with my grinder, but for the most part it seems good.

Today is moment-of-truth day. Well, actually no, I think that will be when I start her up again. But the head is going back on today. I've been avoiding it tbh.
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1982 931
1986.5 Silver 928S
2007 Hummer H3 (Daily Driver)

Past lives (I miss them all):
2004 RX-8 (Wrecked)
1993 RX-7 (Sold)
1987 RX-7 Turbo II (Sold)
1985 RX-7 GSL (Stolen)
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bureau13  



Joined: 07 Sep 2017
Posts: 480
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update...got the head on after much difficulty trying to tetris it past various things that were in the way. One big concern is the gasket and seal for the turbo/manifold. I had the ring seal thing in place, but it got knocked out. I'm hoping now that the head is on and the studs are in holding everything in place (no nuts yet, I mean holding everything in place in terms of location) I can push it up a bit and slide the seals/gaskets into place from below. If there's a better way to do it, let me know. I'm sure it would be ideal to have it in place when you lower the head onto the block but I just couldn't figure a way to get things to stay put.
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1982 931
1986.5 Silver 928S
2007 Hummer H3 (Daily Driver)

Past lives (I miss them all):
2004 RX-8 (Wrecked)
1993 RX-7 (Sold)
1987 RX-7 Turbo II (Sold)
1985 RX-7 GSL (Stolen)
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bureau13  



Joined: 07 Sep 2017
Posts: 480
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I just read a thread on here where it talked about turbos and gaskets, and it mentioned that a fire ring has replaced the gasket on both ends. I haven't unbolted the turbo from the exhaust, but my exhaust-to-manifold junction just had the triangular metal gasket when I took it off, so I ordered a new one of those. However, the parts diagram seems to show the fire ring thing as well, so I ordered one of those. From this other thread, it seems you're NOT supposed to use both?

The other issue here is that I had the little fire ring gasket in place when lowering the head onto the block, but during all that fiddling, at some point I bent it up a bit and then it fell out. So given that I'm not supposed to use both, I wonder if I'm ahead to use the older triangular gasket instead of the newer fire ring* given that it's been jacked up a bit, although I did squeeze it back into shape.

*I'm not really sure this thing should be called a fire ring. That's what I call those rings that fit into the exhaust ports and manifold, they stick out of the ports a ways. This thing fit down into the turbo flange and were almost flush.
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1982 931
1986.5 Silver 928S
2007 Hummer H3 (Daily Driver)

Past lives (I miss them all):
2004 RX-8 (Wrecked)
1993 RX-7 (Sold)
1987 RX-7 Turbo II (Sold)
1985 RX-7 GSL (Stolen)
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Cedric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 2600
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't use both, it will start leaking. But are you fully sure that the groove is there for the sealing ring?

If you change from gasket to sealing ring i think it would be good to release the turbo from the engine block by the 4 screws(or if you skimmed the head etc) , so it can move around a bit, tighten the turbo flange and when everything else is tight you tighten the turbo bracket to the engine block. It sound easy in theory, but it's horrible to do in real life
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Carrera RSR  



Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 2309
Location: Somerset, UK

PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't bother with fire ring in manifold to turbo flange or turbo to exhaust flange. New gaskets and a light smear of some very high temp Loctite exhaust sealant has served me well

Where I do use the fire rings and gaskets is head to manifold flanges. Again with smear of exhaust sealant on rings and gaskets

J pipe and WG also gets the sealant and gasket treatment
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1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, K27/26 3257 6.10 hybrid turbo, 951 FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife
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bureau13  



Joined: 07 Sep 2017
Posts: 480
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2021 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK thanks for the info. I'll get some of that sealant, and go with just the gasket and sealant on the turbo/manifold flange.

To be honest, I'm not entirely convinced what I had was really the proper part. It wasn't much of a fire ring, as I understand them.
_________________
-----------------------------------------
1982 931
1986.5 Silver 928S
2007 Hummer H3 (Daily Driver)

Past lives (I miss them all):
2004 RX-8 (Wrecked)
1993 RX-7 (Sold)
1987 RX-7 Turbo II (Sold)
1985 RX-7 GSL (Stolen)
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Cedric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 2600
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2021 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The ring is very simple, and should be a little tight to put into the groove. I theory its a better solution than the gasket, since you will have less creep in the manifold flange joint, and thus have a greater clamping force. Thats probably why they did the change. However if you ran with the gasket before there is a point to run it again since it affects the turbo to manifold position a bit. And its quite hard/impossible to follow the correct torque procedure when you do this with the engine in the car. And if you would change you need to be sure that you have the correct parts made for the ring.
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bureau13  



Joined: 07 Sep 2017
Posts: 480
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2021 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Add to this that I kinda messed up that ring in my first attempt. I mostly smoothed it out (at least visually) but at this point it definitely sounds like the safest approach is to just go with the gasket like I've been doing, as you say.

Cedric wrote:
The ring is very simple, and should be a little tight to put into the groove. I theory its a better solution than the gasket, since you will have less creep in the manifold flange joint, and thus have a greater clamping force. Thats probably why they did the change. However if you ran with the gasket before there is a point to run it again since it affects the turbo to manifold position a bit. And its quite hard/impossible to follow the correct torque procedure when you do this with the engine in the car. And if you would change you need to be sure that you have the correct parts made for the ring.

_________________
-----------------------------------------
1982 931
1986.5 Silver 928S
2007 Hummer H3 (Daily Driver)

Past lives (I miss them all):
2004 RX-8 (Wrecked)
1993 RX-7 (Sold)
1987 RX-7 Turbo II (Sold)
1985 RX-7 GSL (Stolen)
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2596
Location: MI

PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2021 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah probably just go with the gasket..

I’ve only ever used the rings but it’s just a toss up..
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bureau13  



Joined: 07 Sep 2017
Posts: 480
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2021 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When it took so long to get the head back, I knew this would happen: I've forgotten where a few things go! I took some pictures, but I don't seem to have pictures that show what I need.

At the back of the head there's an oil pressure sensor. I cannot get the little nuts on there. I have another one from the spare block that still has the wires attached and cut from the harness. I think it might be easier to swap sensors and spice into the harness. Thoughts?

On the subject of that harness: I have two wires coming out of that same section, one with a ring terminal and the other is attached to a male spade terminal with a hole...I THINK those are the two oil pressure sensor connections? Maybe? Does it matter which goes where? Then I have a female spade connector in the vicinity that goes...I have no idea. From one of my pictures it seems it attaches right beneath the smaller of the two coolant hoses, but...I am not sure what's going on there.

Anyone remember? None of the parts diagrams I have looked at are very helpful here...
_________________
-----------------------------------------
1982 931
1986.5 Silver 928S
2007 Hummer H3 (Daily Driver)

Past lives (I miss them all):
2004 RX-8 (Wrecked)
1993 RX-7 (Sold)
1987 RX-7 Turbo II (Sold)
1985 RX-7 GSL (Stolen)
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924RACR  



Joined: 29 Jul 2001
Posts: 8794
Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA

PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2021 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have it right. Two ring terminals on the oil pressure sender; one is to a spade terminal adapter. Don't know why you would be looking to splice wires, the nuts and ring terminals should work just fine.

And the other female spare terminal - yellow with blue stripe wire IIRC - goes to the coolant temp sender squeezed between the two coolant hoses on the elbow on the back of the head.
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bureau13  



Joined: 07 Sep 2017
Posts: 480
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2021 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

924RACR wrote:
You have it right. Two ring terminals on the oil pressure sender; one is to a spade terminal adapter. Don't know why you would be looking to splice wires, the nuts and ring terminals should work just fine.

And the other female spare terminal - yellow with blue stripe wire IIRC - goes to the coolant temp sender squeezed between the two coolant hoses on the elbow on the back of the head.


I just can't seem to get my hand down there to put the nuts on, and a socket wrench won't fit. I was thinking I should have attached them before I put the head on, but I'm sure head removal is not required to change that sensor.
_________________
-----------------------------------------
1982 931
1986.5 Silver 928S
2007 Hummer H3 (Daily Driver)

Past lives (I miss them all):
2004 RX-8 (Wrecked)
1993 RX-7 (Sold)
1987 RX-7 Turbo II (Sold)
1985 RX-7 GSL (Stolen)
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924RACR  



Joined: 29 Jul 2001
Posts: 8794
Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA

PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2021 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Need to give it a reacharound.

I slip my left hand up around from the low side of the head, on the exhaust side, then back up again behind the head to reach those connections.
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peterld  



Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 946
Location: Noosa Heads QLD Australia

PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2021 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And it helps if you pull the dissie.
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bureau13  



Joined: 07 Sep 2017
Posts: 480
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2021 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will have to try the reach-around In my head it doesn't seem like enough room but...I need to go out and look at it. The dizzy is definitely in the way from the top. I guess I could remove it.

Someone on Facebook suggested (lightly) supergluing the nut to a ratcheting wrench and reaching down with that, which just might work. If I can't reach around from the exhaust side I will try that.
_________________
-----------------------------------------
1982 931
1986.5 Silver 928S
2007 Hummer H3 (Daily Driver)

Past lives (I miss them all):
2004 RX-8 (Wrecked)
1993 RX-7 (Sold)
1987 RX-7 Turbo II (Sold)
1985 RX-7 GSL (Stolen)
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