924Board.org

[AznDrgn]

Not mine but I thought I would share in case someone is interested.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33617&item=7950993306&rd=1
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-'87 Jeep Cherokee 4.0L 6" of lift 33" Super Swampers

-'83 Callaway 944 2.5L turbo, 300HP, 1 of 42 ever made

[Khal]

*drool*
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'80 924 Turbo

[CMXXXI]

And this bare head is different how? The posted photos look just the same as the photos I took of mine when I rebuilt it last winter. Even the casting number is the same. No noticeable increase of valve size, etc, etc. I'm no expert on the racing aspects of these engines, but it sure doesn't look any different than mine. I say "Buyer Beware".
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'79 Eurospec 931

[-nick]

I wasn't sure at first either. What gives it away is the deletion of one of the water channels at the rear. You can just see that it's lacking in one of the pics. By this feature alone, I'd say it's the real thing. Compare it to the pics here:

http://hem.passagen.se/utzon/937/924E.html

The valves are only(!) about 2mm larger, that wouldn't really be noticeable by looking at a photo. I don't know how much larger the ports are, but that would be tough to discern too.

The trick is going to be the cost of a set of valves to fill it up with. Ouch! That's what is turning me off to it. The difference between a stupid amount of money and ludicrous amount of money seals the deal for me

Happy bidding to whoever goes for it! I can't imagine it going for under $500. Then another $$$? for the valvetrain.

nick

[924guy]

The valve issue (or lack of them) was the first thing that crossed my mind as well..i could sell a kidney or something for the head i guess, but the rest of the assembly would deplete my supply of saleable organs quite rapidly im sure...
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Eric
78 924
82 931 SE "smokey"
99' VehiCross
Y2K Honda Insight
http://www.cardomain.com/id/924Guy
Performance by Pasha

[Kenodog]

It is the real deal.He bought the car from Paul Newman in the early '80's then crashed hard 5 years later.Apperantly he still has the engine/tranny and suspension.He also has the mechanical fuel injection system which he says he'll put up after this auction.The reason I wouldn't buy it is because the intake ports were ported so large that they won't mate up with a stock intake manifold,you'd need a LARGE dia. set of intake runners and carbs,or the original set up of course.42.4 mm intake valves.Paeco will custom make any size valves you want for $110 ea.
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1979 Euro 931, Olive
1981 931, Sabine
1991 Ford Ranger XLT 4x4, Ricky
1996 Ford E-350 ex-FedEx Van
2014 Mazda CX-5 (Kinderwagon)
2019 KTM 790 Adventure
2024 KLX300
2024 KLX140

[CMXXXI]

[-nick]

It's the water opening that is far left and center in your first pic. That is what gets deleted in the GTR head. It's not easy to tell in the ebay pics, but the opening is gone.

I talked the seller and he has the valvetrain, but he said "WINNER GETS VALVE TRAIN AS LONG AS IT BRINGS ENOUGH, BUT THE VALVES ARE TITANIUM AND OLD IM AFRAID THEY MIGHT BREAK BUT BUCKETS COSWORTH SPRINGS,KEEPERS ECT" Not sure what age has to do with the valve breakage? I'm sure this little piece will fetch a pretty penny. It's ability is far beyone the power goals I'm aiming for.

nick

[Zuffen]

The part number isn't a GT part, looks like it may be a holbert part by the porting...factory authentication may be tough.

GTR heads depending on which year, which owner and which car can be different.

It doesn't look like a GTR head.

There was a big bore turbo head offered back in the day when the Okrasa and Oettinger kits were hot.

No telling, other than what the current owner says, as what it may be is up in the air.
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Bob Dodd - 924turbo@cox.net
931 1982, 944 1982 euro, 924S 1988SE, 93 968 tip 06 Silver Cayenne S, 06 Black Cayenne S

I have Way too many cars, parts for the 931,944 and 951

[CMXXXI]

[Zuffen]

Well after some diggin around in the old paper work.

The part number 931 104 301 05 is for a GTR an early car.

I'm making some assumptions here on what this really is.

That ebay head was version 3 ( like most) and the Lemans cars were supposed to be version 5 , and maybe with sealed off coolant galleys.

I'll do a comparison so you guys can have the actual specs.

Until it comes in there is no telling
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Bob Dodd - 924turbo@cox.net
931 1982, 944 1982 euro, 924S 1988SE, 93 968 tip 06 Silver Cayenne S, 06 Black Cayenne S

I have Way too many cars, parts for the 931,944 and 951

[Zuffen]

I didn't find out until about 45 minutes ago when I dug my manuals out.

All I need are three items to complete a GTR engine, well roughly 3 items.

crank
dry sump
mechanical injection (to be authentic)

I passed on a full Kuglefisher setup two years ago. I couldn't see using it unless it was on a numbered and original car.

I have some supposed GTR pistons and GTR cam so anyone into building that spec engine let me know and I can show some pics, well some pics later this summer when I dig it all out of storage.
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Bob Dodd - 924turbo@cox.net
931 1982, 944 1982 euro, 924S 1988SE, 93 968 tip 06 Silver Cayenne S, 06 Black Cayenne S

I have Way too many cars, parts for the 931,944 and 951

[Vince Ponz]

Good luck Bob. I bid on the part too and backed out when I thought about the other parts I needed to buy namely the ports sizes.

Keep us abreast of your progress.
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"Never let them see you sweat"
77.5 924 modified track car
79 931 Euro stock
88 924S SE
87 911 Targa stock

[Zuffen]

Here are some part numbers

931 104 901 03 US and Euro all years (PET)

931 104 901 02 GT (PET)

931 104 001 09 GTS factory docments

931 104 301 05 GTR factory docments

931 104 302 50 D-prod factory docments

The ebay head is 931 104 301 3R

This head falls in line with the GTR not the stock heads? If the PET numbers are right?

But all the heads I have in the garage are the same part number.
So check your heads and let me know.

Now based on his claims this may be a holbert head. Based on part number it is definitly not a GTR head from the factory.

There is a possiblity that stock 931 had a different head when shipped and what we are looking at is the superceded part number. Or the PET has a typo in the computer program

The last two digits on any part number indicates revision.

So from the 931 stock to the GT there is a revision. It may be valve size or type or difference in the guides. It could also mean a slight or major change in machining. And it could also mean a casting change and being the number change is not a stamped number this could very well mean a manufacturing change in the casting. I don't think so personally.

As it is very easy to change the casting number is the process but have the same base molds used. The number change is for part tracking and that group recieved the changes in another step of the manufacturing

Now the GTS, GTR and D-prod have completely different numbers, which will mean casting change, machining changes, heat treating changes, etc..

But I suspect due to the cost of castings that there is one master mold and all these heads are from the same master mold. There is a very good chance the port can be cast larger in these later heads, but that is only a part change in the casting molds. The initial master head mold is still used.

What that means is no matter what the factory did it can be replicated on stock head. By machine porting or extrude honing we can get larger ports. Larger seats and valves can be added. Injector sockets can be plugged like on the D-prod head.

The AMC spec heads I have, a don't have injector sockets machined in them, they would be perfect for a carb setup, or to machine out for modern injectors.
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Bob Dodd - 924turbo@cox.net
931 1982, 944 1982 euro, 924S 1988SE, 93 968 tip 06 Silver Cayenne S, 06 Black Cayenne S

I have Way too many cars, parts for the 931,944 and 951

[CMXXXI]

Here's a photo of my 931 head ('79 Euro) that I took while doing a port & polish job on it. Casting number is "931104 301 3R" At this stage I'd enlarged all the intake ports to the size and shape of the new gaskets that came with the head gasket set. Before finishing, I smoothed off the port surfaces and matched the manifold with the gaskets as well.
Click for full size image .. Other photos here
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'79 Eurospec 931