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Supercharged 924 NA
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 8868
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you again for the kind words.
This whole thing could be optimized and improved further but i think i dont want to spend that time now.
I did a final trial fit yesterday with the latest parts (i did another small loop of improvements) and i am happy about how the parts fit together and how they fit to the car.
Some may agree with me and some not, but i will do my best to show everything relevant before anyone commits…well except Jacob and a couple other guys who already bought their chargers.
Yeaterday the first air-filter-box cap was cast as those will all be cast in a mold and i will get that final part today.
I hope that tomorrow i will complete the assembly on my car and be able to take it for a drive.
Then its up for a couple of weeks of final testing.
After that, i’ll hopefully be able to start the list.
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Riggard  



Joined: 16 Feb 2021
Posts: 61
Location: Heemskerk, Netherlands

PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

*Starts looking for an Eaton M45*
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mrleaf6  



Joined: 27 Apr 2020
Posts: 2
Location: Manitoba, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cant wait for it to be available for order! it’s been a long time coming but so worth it.
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 8868
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for expressing your interest, it keeps me motivated.
I just finished recording everything needed for the “how to” video.

Unfortunately i ran into another issue.
The air filter box needs to be modfied, this is no news.
The issue is that i consider the cutting of the airbox and fitting the patch (floor of the airbox) not easy enough.
I dont want to give you the patch and say have fun with an angle grinder on the airbox.
I have already started on improving this and while i will test the rest of the system on my car in the next couple of weeks i want to clean up the airbox modification process and give you clear and precise indications on how to do it. The only downside is that i’ll have to make a new mold for the airbox patch.

I’ll edit the how to videos and post them in the next days.
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 8868
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Havent driven or even moved my 924 since so long now, but a new phase starts tomorrow.
Hopefully it all works out as intended and you guys can enjoy this on your cars soon.

https://youtu.be/oa8Ifi5itSU
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Riggard  



Joined: 16 Feb 2021
Posts: 61
Location: Heemskerk, Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lovely! Nice whirling sound as well
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kondzi  



Joined: 02 Jul 2018
Posts: 485
Location: Poland/EU

PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMHO anyone that would install that kit by him/herself has a grinder or any other tool that will allow to cut that out
Just make a template sticker that you glue to the bottom of the airbox with a "have fun" on it

For the enrichment part, maybe you know skogenracing. I've followed their early builds many years ago... They used a Volvo (if I remember) boost sensor (on/off) to trigger an additional injector.

Just a thought - it could be as easy as that to add this missing bit of fuel and bring the AFR close enough to optimal.

Today took a ride with my 931 and realised that on high boost my AFR readings are high 8ths... The idea to take WUR out and adjust it and reassemble makes me think - drive with less boost

Are you still printing the parts from PET? Did you try to make any pressure testing of the parts, because my educated guess might be that you worry to much about the durability of those parts. These are not high pressures to be honest, think about brake system

Good luck, great work!
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Konrad
'89 951 US
'88 Mustang 5.0 LX Convertible (factory specs)
'84 911 Carrera 3.2 RoW (factory specs)
'81 931 RoW (TBD)
'81 Ford Capri 2.8i (factory specs)
'79 Ford Capri 2.9 (heavily modded)
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Cedric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 2600
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kondzi wrote:
IMHO anyone that would install that kit by him/herself has a grinder or any other tool that will allow to cut that out
Just make a template sticker that you glue to the bottom of the airbox with a "have fun" on it

For the enrichment part, maybe you know skogenracing. I've followed their early builds many years ago... They used a Volvo (if I remember) boost sensor (on/off) to trigger an additional injector.

Just a thought - it could be as easy as that to add this missing bit of fuel and bring the AFR close enough to optimal.

Today took a ride with my 931 and realised that on high boost my AFR readings are high 8ths... The idea to take WUR out and adjust it and reassemble makes me think - drive with less boost

Are you still printing the parts from PET? Did you try to make any pressure testing of the parts, because my educated guess might be that you worry to much about the durability of those parts. These are not high pressures to be honest, think about brake system

Good luck, great work!


Or you can do as i had to do after i put the IC and turbo on, i just unplugged the boost enrichment port from the wur, and it solved everything I was down in the low 10s with the enrichment (after IC), and between 11 and 12 with the enrichment pulled of. 8 in the zone of misfire, and you risk of putting alot of fuel on the bores and down in the oil.

Would be very interesting to see the AFR curve with the charger, maybe a 931 WUR with enrichment could help if needed. But then it gets more troublesome for the customers. Triggering the cold start injector could maybe be an easier way as your suggestion. Or an intercooler

Pressure is not the main challenge with these parts, its the high temps, which make prints deform and soften.

Great work with finishing the kit, if you want to do stuff properly theres always lots of work with the finishing touches to make it work well.
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 8868
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Konrad, I was just going to suggest unplugging the WUR line as Cedric did on his car, and i more or less did the same with mine when i had a 924 turbo, i actually had a restrictor in the WUR control line, not completely disconnected.

For the 3D printed parts, pressure is really not a problem..one for it is PET we are talking about..and PET is quite good with pressure - also i dialed in the print settings so parts stay together pretty well- but also the application is just 0.2-0.3 bar..thats not much pressure at all...plus the additional BOV helps to mitigate the pressure spikes.
Like Cedric said, the problem is softening, thats why i reinforce the parts with either glass fiber or carbon fiber and epoxy resin. I hope that the epoxy and fibers help maintain required rigidity when the PET starts to become soft. I'll start driving the car soon and we will find out if i need to use more epoxy/reinforcement or not.

I already tested the PET for pressure on the car, i had an early prototype on the car for about a week without any pressure problems. That prototype had an o-ring seal and the part was held on the TB by a bracket and a ledge directly on the 3D printed part(no reinforcement). That gave up after a week of daily abuse. So i switched from o-ring to silicone coupling, basically identical TB sealing like the 931 S1.

I really have to strap that AFR gauge to the car..but i'm so lazy about that...i have to also swap out all the dials as i have a beautiful green set from a 931 S1 so its a bigger interior job...i just need to pick a day to swap all the dials and install the AFR.

Regarding the airbox, yes i plan to either include a template paper or a set of measurements and guides of where to cut...probably both. However the initial plan was in my opinion too far into the artistic zone
So now the cut will be bigger but easier to do. The patch part will be larger and easier to fit.
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kondzi  



Joined: 02 Jul 2018
Posts: 485
Location: Poland/EU

PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure how you reinforce the prints... Easiest way that comes to my mind would be to soak these parts in some kind of "honey-like" glue/epoxy that would later harden. Maybe in that case a poor quality print with some kind of mesh structure would be even better, as this could soak into the print and create a hardened structure inside the print... Just my imagination, haven't tried anything like that.
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Konrad
'89 951 US
'88 Mustang 5.0 LX Convertible (factory specs)
'84 911 Carrera 3.2 RoW (factory specs)
'81 931 RoW (TBD)
'81 Ford Capri 2.8i (factory specs)
'79 Ford Capri 2.9 (heavily modded)
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 8868
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well the inlet of the supercharger is exactly that epoxy coated PET.
Parts need to be sanded as unfortunately epoxy does not chemically bond to PET.
The charged pipes are fiberglass/carbon fiber wrapped with epoxy resin for more rigidity as they have to be clamped and stay clamped under prolonged temperature exposure. Basically i'm using the 3D prints as a one time use mold.

An intercooler upgrade is the first thing i'll do.
When that is ready, i'll offer it as an upgrade to the supercharger kit.
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jacobroufa  



Joined: 18 Nov 2016
Posts: 529
Location: Belvidere, IL

PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

morghen wrote:
An intercooler upgrade is the first thing i'll do.
When that is ready, i'll offer it as an upgrade to the supercharger kit.


Sweeet.

Of course it is. Sticking with (relatively) non-destructive theme?
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 8868
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Absolutely, but first i want to know that the 3D printed parts that take boost hold their functions in some specific conditions.
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kondzi  



Joined: 02 Jul 2018
Posts: 485
Location: Poland/EU

PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If only I did not have 931, I'd insist on having one of the first commercial kits on my car

Regarding coating with epoxy... I expect you chose PET as it's resistant to oils, fuel etc. But it does not stick to epoxy. If you cover it with epoxy, then you don't care it's not resistant to oil right? Maybe use ABS instead, that should stick well to epoxy.

I'll check with vacuum/boost disconnected from WUR - thx Cedric/Morghen.
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Konrad
'89 951 US
'88 Mustang 5.0 LX Convertible (factory specs)
'84 911 Carrera 3.2 RoW (factory specs)
'81 931 RoW (TBD)
'81 Ford Capri 2.8i (factory specs)
'79 Ford Capri 2.9 (heavily modded)
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 8868
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I chose PET because it prints easily, does not warp and has good layer adhesion as well as responds well to the loads applied to the parts in this application. My prints are quite large and i had no good results with ABS or ASA.
I chose epoxy and fiber glass reinforcing not for oil and fuel contamination, PET is decent at that, i chose epoxy for rigidity improvement at operating temperature and heat load transfer away from the printed parts.

kondzi wrote:
If only I did not have 931, I'd insist on having one of the first commercial kits on my car

Regarding coating with epoxy... I expect you chose PET as it's resistant to oils, fuel etc. But it does not stick to epoxy. If you cover it with epoxy, then you don't care it's not resistant to oil right? Maybe use ABS instead, that should stick well to epoxy.

I'll check with vacuum/boost disconnected from WUR - thx Cedric/Morghen.

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