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lildude4life
Joined: 27 Apr 2015
Posts: 60
Location: Milwaukee WI
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 Posted: Fri May 07, 2021 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| chuck21401 wrote: | | lildude4life wrote: |
@Chuck
MY tuner said the Radiator size we both are using for the Intercooler is wayyy to small... Like should have one double the size. One of his techs laughed at me  Mainly because he heat soaked it pretty much after one pull as they cant flow enough air over it to cool it off.
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Interesting. I have mine mounted in front of the radiator with a fan. With the way that it's mounted now, I think it would be fairly easy to mount a larger heat exchanger. This one is the same width, but taller:
http://www.frozenboost.com/water-to-air-heat-exchanger/transmission-cooler-p-1110.html
With the warmer temperatures the temps are increasing but street driving and occasional boost runs not sure if it's needed. |
Agreed on street driving probably being fine. I was looking at the same model as the one you have listed but there is a Type 115 that looks even slightly larger but its out of stock atm.
| chuck21401 wrote: | | lildude4life wrote: |
Going to replace them with either the GM Fast Response ones or something else. What sucks is the GM sensors are 14mm threads,,, the intercooler has 12mm threads. Likely going to end up putting the new sensor where the old stock sensor went just past the throttle body. Currently I just have that 14mm hole plugged. |
Because of the size issue or because you'll get better readings? |
GM fast response will give better readings. But I am having issues mounting them as the GM ones do not come in 12x1.5mm. Going to likely have to go back to the stock IAT location as that is a 14x1.5mm hole and figure something else out for the Pre-IC temp sensor.
I need just the sensors. Those look like 1/8NPT threads which should work nicely for you. I may end up having to re-tap the hole for pre-IC air temp if I want to do it right.
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"931 EFR" 81 931 S2 w/ EFR 6258 turbo, EFI, Haltech Elite ECU, 240whp |
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Carrera RSR
Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 2312
Location: Somerset, UK
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| Posted: Fri May 07, 2021 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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Would be really interesting to see pre and post cooler IAT's to see how the cooler is handling the temps. On WOT you may have pre well over 100C, I saw 125C with 2660.610 turbo over 1bar. 951 FMIC brought that down to 6-10C over ambient air temp. With UK rarely anywhere near or indeed over 30C my IAT's rarely go over that, if it ever does, its never over 40C
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1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, K27/26 3257 6.10 hybrid turbo, 951 FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife
Now www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=34690
Then www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=31252 |
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safe
Joined: 18 Mar 2017
Posts: 698
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri May 07, 2021 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| lildude4life wrote: |
GM fast response will give better readings. But I am having issues mounting them as the GM ones do not come in 12x1.5mm. Going to likely have to go back to the stock IAT location as that is a 14x1.5mm hole and figure something else out for the Pre-IC temp sensor.
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Why not just tap it to 14mm ?
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/Magnus, Stockholm Sweden
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Porsche 924 -79 NA, EFI and Turbo.
Porsche 931 -79
Porsche 911 -77, 3.2 Targa
Porsche 911 -69, 3.6, Coupe |
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lildude4life
Joined: 27 Apr 2015
Posts: 60
Location: Milwaukee WI
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 2:47 am Post subject: |
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| safe wrote: | | lildude4life wrote: |
GM fast response will give better readings. But I am having issues mounting them as the GM ones do not come in 12x1.5mm. Going to likely have to go back to the stock IAT location as that is a 14x1.5mm hole and figure something else out for the Pre-IC temp sensor.
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Why not just tap it to 14mm ? |
Im not sure that there is enough material there to drill and tap from M12 to M14:
It does fit (albeit I'll have to move the coils to install it) in the stock IAT location. I'll get it installed and wired up tonight and hopefully get some data this week to see how it responds compared to the Bosch Sensor.
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"931 EFR" 81 931 S2 w/ EFR 6258 turbo, EFI, Haltech Elite ECU, 240whp |
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Fasteddie313
Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2595
Location: MI
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 5:29 am Post subject: |
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Uh...
If that’s a GM sensor, are you sure it’s not an NPT thread instead of whatever metric thread you are thinking?
Think that is probably 1/2 or 3/8 NPT..
Pretty sure mine is..
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80 Turbo - Slightly Modified |
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lildude4life
Joined: 27 Apr 2015
Posts: 60
Location: Milwaukee WI
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Fasteddie313
Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2595
Location: MI
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 6:00 am Post subject: |
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| lildude4life wrote: | | Fasteddie313 wrote: | Uh...
If that’s a GM sensor, are you sure it’s not an NPT thread instead of whatever metric thread you are thinking?
Think that is probably 1/2 or 3/8 NPT..
Pretty sure mine is.. |
GM makes 3 versions. 1/4NPT, 3/8NPT and M14x1.5.
This is the latter. |
Ok cool..
Good to confirm...
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80 Turbo - Slightly Modified |
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safe
Joined: 18 Mar 2017
Posts: 698
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 6:00 am Post subject: |
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Easy to check, the lug nuts are m14 1.5
19mm off material should be enough for m14.
_________________
/Magnus, Stockholm Sweden
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Porsche 924 -79 NA, EFI and Turbo.
Porsche 931 -79
Porsche 911 -77, 3.2 Targa
Porsche 911 -69, 3.6, Coupe |
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chuck21401
Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 606
Location: Annapolis, MD
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 4:25 am Post subject: Boost leak! |
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Returning to the discussion about the TMCC on my car...
I went for a ride last night. I was hitting the boost in 2nd and 3rd gear getting on the highway...suddenly lost power along with what sounded like a blow off valve opening up. I figured it was a big boost leak. Was able to drive the car home fine.
I opened the hood to find that the silicon hose attached to the turbo had lifted off. You can't see it here, but this gives you an idea how the pipes are routed.
Here you can see where the hose clamp ended up. I thought it was tight--apparently not tight enough. Would a T-bolt work better?
With the factory set up the pipe is held down with a bracket...I wonder if I could fabricate something to hold the silicone pipe in place?
Of course if I had one of these I could go back to the stock lower boost pipe.
Mike9311, what are the chances that you might produce another one of these? My cryptocurrency is doing well...how about $300? 
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1981 Porsche 931 w/S1 engine & euro g31 transaxle. Water-cooled intercooler
Last edited by chuck21401 on Sat May 15, 2021 11:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Fasteddie313
Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2595
Location: MI
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 5:19 am Post subject: |
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Yes T-bolts..
I too started with worm type hose clamps, and then started blowing them all..
T-bolts stopped all that quick..
Another guy into crypto?
In 06/2015 I sold 0.8206 BTC for $200 to buy my intercooler, blow off valve, and some other pieces for my FMIC install.. (can still see it haunting me on my coinbase account history)
I’m still running the same IC and BOV, but now that would be worth about $46,000 
No regrets?
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80 Turbo - Slightly Modified |
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Mike9311
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1798
Location: Chicago-ish
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 6:40 am Post subject: |
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Chuck, I am about to run another one since I need it for the CS. This time I'll make sure the programs gets tweaked properly for production and crank out a batch
Stay tuned (pun intended  )
_________________
1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA ohne 650 mit 471
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car |
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lildude4life
Joined: 27 Apr 2015
Posts: 60
Location: Milwaukee WI
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 9:05 am Post subject: |
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Some more data for yall with the Fast Responce GM Sensor in the stock IAT location.
Quick drive down to the grocery store. Took the long way so I could hit the on ramp. Some bloke in a MB SUV was an SMV so I didn't get a good pull in 3rd to redline, but interesting data non-the-less.
Ambient air temp: 67 freedom units
Zoomed in view of the on ramp. Pre-IC air hit 104F with the crap Bosch sensor (likely way higher), IC water was at 75F and IAT was 85 at 11psi.
Here is overall view of the drive. Steady increase of IC water temps the entire time, with an obvious spike during the onramp pull. Which kinda proves the point of the IC rad being too small, the IC water temp steadily increased even cruising under vacuum on the freeway for 2-3min.
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"931 EFR" 81 931 S2 w/ EFR 6258 turbo, EFI, Haltech Elite ECU, 240whp |
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Mike9311
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1798
Location: Chicago-ish
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 10:28 am Post subject: |
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Nice data...really nice
Thanks!
Edit: Chuck, I am at full swing redoing the programming for machining all weekend on and off. Should start making chips in the next day or so
_________________
1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA ohne 650 mit 471
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car |
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Fasteddie313
Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2595
Location: MI
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| Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 9:35 am Post subject: |
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Data is nice!!
Just beware the influence of your water temp on your other temps, as they correlate so perfectly, even your pre-ic..
I would like to see your data after/during a much longer drive making sure you are up to full operating temp..
If you are going to push to the limit of MAT, to be on the safe side, I would calculate the difference in tempature between your water and MAT reading, and then add that to your MAT data to get closer to an estimation of your actual MAT..
If water = 80 and MAT = 100 then true MAT is probably 120..
True MAT = MAT+(MAT-Water)
Somewhere around there I’d expect to be closer to accurate..
Looks like your MAT reading touched 85 while water was 75 so I’d say your true MAT probably reached around 95..
You’re probably in the safe zone, MAT wise, up to around 130-150 max, so you are well in the clear for now..
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80 Turbo - Slightly Modified |
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lildude4life
Joined: 27 Apr 2015
Posts: 60
Location: Milwaukee WI
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| Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| Fasteddie313 wrote: | Data is nice!!
Just beware the influence of your water temp on your other temps, as they correlate so perfectly, even your pre-ic..
I would like to see your data after/during a much longer drive making sure you are up to full operating temp.. |
Actual coolant temp leveled off at 176F about 8min into that drive. So in the data log photos above, the IC water temp climbed the entire time and never leveled out even at high speed on the freeway where one would think the massive airflow over the radiator would help to lower the IC water temp closer to atmospheric...
| Fasteddie313 wrote: |
If you are going to push to the limit of MAT, to be on the safe side, I would calculate the difference in tempature between your water and MAT reading, and then add that to your MAT data to get closer to an estimation of your actual MAT..
If water = 80 and MAT = 100 then true MAT is probably 120..
True MAT = MAT+(MAT-Water)
Somewhere around there I’d expect to be closer to accurate..
Looks like your MAT reading touched 85 while water was 75 so I’d say your true MAT probably reached around 95..
You’re probably in the safe zone, MAT wise, up to around 130-150 max, so you are well in the clear for now.. |
I get what you are saying, but at WOT I'm not sure the temperature of the air entering the cylinder is going to be much higher than the IAT reading with a fast sensor.. But what haltech allows for that is super neat, is a calculated IAT table. It takes your coolant temp (not the IC water temp shown above) and RPM, and allows you to set a percentage value for each RPM/coolant Temp cell. That percentage is a scale between your coolant temp (100%) and your IAT temp reading (0%). Why? At low RPM, high coolant temp, your value could be set to 100% of the coolant temp value. At high RPM values, your calculated IAT can be 0% of coolant (aka whatever the IAT sensor is reading). Its function is so when your throttle is closed and air movement is slow, the calculated IAT the ECU is using is much higher than the IAT reading your sensor sees. When you are at WOT high RPM and airflow is supper fast, your IAT reading is what your IAT will be entering your cylinder.
I'll let the tuner use his fancy witchcraft and magic to use the new IAT data from the faster sensor to find the boost limits for me and they are what they are.
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"931 EFR" 81 931 S2 w/ EFR 6258 turbo, EFI, Haltech Elite ECU, 240whp |
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