 |
924Board.org
Discussion Forum of 924.org
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Rasta Monsta
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11733
Location: PacNW
|
 Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 3:45 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| larchie wrote: | | I get it that you denigrate the sources of my information, but that does not belie their factual accuracy. |
It does indeed. You have inaccurately described the function of the control pressure regulator. There is no question about this. The accurate description is in the link I posted, which I hope you, the OP, and anyone trying to work on CIS takes a moment to read.
Neither the forum nor its users benefit from encyclopedic posts of inaccurate information. Dolium volvitur!
_________________
Toofah King Bad
- WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
larchie
Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Posts: 297
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
There was no attempt on my part here to describe the functions of the control pressure regulator. Again, if you would read the thread it would be clear that Jason K isn't asking how the CPR (WUR) works or even how all the components interact, he's specifically asking how the fuel pressure regulator and the CPR interact.
| JasonK wrote: | | I have isolated the problem to the CPR however, and I am fairly certain I do understand how it is supposed to work. |
So that’s not his question. He said, “not sure I understand 100% how the two work together,” not "how does the CPR work?" And earlier in the thread in this linked post he stated, "I understand how the dizzy works." So that's not the issue.
I have studied the source you cite before, and it's excellent for an over-all view of CIS, but that's not what JasonK wants to understand here.
You remark that what is expressed in the three sentences you quote has "nothing correct" and is "wildly incorrect." Enough of the repeated presumptuous generalities.
If you want to be useful in the thread for the question asked, take any one of the sentences you quote as being incorrect, and explain why it's false. There is no need to say a sentence is inaccurate because it's incomplete in isolation because that is something quite different from the claim of there being “nothing correct.”
Such a help for his specific question would be far more useful to me, the 924 board, and to JasonK than sending him to read another general description in the literature of the operations of CIS. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rasta Monsta
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11733
Location: PacNW
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
OK, here is something helpful:
larchie is a tireless researcher who sometimes misinterprets what he is reading, therefore you should take his advise with a grain of salt.
_________________
Toofah King Bad
- WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
larchie
Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Posts: 297
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 3:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Anyone is capable of making mistakes so it's always advisable to take advice with a grain of salt. So I can't see how your truism is either on topic or a help to the thread's topic.
Why not put your character attack aside for a moment and help with the problem at issue? Again, if there were "literally nothing correct" about those three sentences you quote, then it's had to understand why you continue to side-step the explanation how each is false and thus help answer JasonK's question. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
larchie
Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Posts: 297
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 3:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Jason, did you correct the connections to the supplementary start valve's (i.e., electric solenoid) temperature switch in the coolant return line?
| JasonK wrote: | Yes the other one {i.e., other wire connection from the solenoid} is indeed BrWt and grounded which it should not be, I'm trying to figure out 1. where it goes 2. If this may fix/cause my fuel pressure to be wrong.
The YeRd is spliced FROM ReBk between T7A and the CSV injector. |
Right, that mistaken wiring might be a cause. The current flow is from the Starter/Ignition wire Re/Bk wire to connector T-7 to another Re/Bk wire to the Supplementary (Cold) Start Valve (or in Hanes called the electric solenoid valve).
(1) Where it goes: The Br/Wh wire from the Supplementary Start Valve terminates in the supplementary start valve's Temperature Switch; the other wire of this switch is a Br ground wire to the ground near the distributor.
This image of the supplementary start valve's temperature switch shows what it looks like, and I think its exact position in the coolant return line in this image matches the early production of the 1979 924. But it's easily identified by the Br ground wire and the Br/Wh solenoid wires at the terminals.
1979 924 Supplementary (Cold) Start Valve's Temperature Switch
(2) Can it cause fuel pressure to be wrong? Sure, since the valve would never open after starting and warming to reduce the extra pressure by shunting fuel to the fuel return line in the engine’s return to its normal operating pressure. Yet, even if you go through the troubleshooting tests (Hanes Ch. 3 Sec. 20) I don't think an inoperable Supplementary Start Valve and/or faulty SSV's Temperature Switch, considered by themselves, could explain the high fuel pressures you are finding since the fuel return line from the Control Pressure Regulator is not hindered by the fuel return line from the Supplementary Start Valve.
| JasonK wrote: | | Edits ... Right now i have BlYe d33 on that sensor, where does that go? I could have an open contact hiding somewhere on the rear coolant Flange. |
Probably so, since the current flow for that wire should be like this: from the Oil Pressure Meter Indicator in the Instrument Cluster the Bl/Ye wire goes to Connector T-7 near the distributor to the Bl/Ye wire which terminates in the Coolant Temperature Sender Unit (or Sensor) with only one terminal as the housing is the ground.
| JasonK wrote: | | Maybe I'm doing something wrong while testing the control pressure? |
I don’t think so, since your explanation is so clear. But to make sure we’re on the same page, I'll try putting it in my own words. After installing the pressure gauge, disconnecting the plugs to the CPR and Auxiliary Air Valve, jumping the fuel relay, running the fuel pump and bleeding ... -- With the valve closed, you read the primary pressure of 75 psi.
--With the valve opened, the control pressure was read without change at about 75 psi. If this is the way you tested, and this is the way Weber recommends, I can't see any way around the conclusion that the CPR is faulty.
So, in my opinion, there would be no need for further tests other than to check the low resistance of the heater coil and the voltage to the CPR, if you have not already done so, since it appears there is no restriction in the return fuel line. And, maybe, as suggested before you could try cleaning the CPR's screens before trying a third CPR. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rasta Monsta
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11733
Location: PacNW
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
| larchie wrote: | | Again, if there were "literally nothing correct" about those three sentences you quote, then it's had to understand why you continue to side-step the explanation how each is false and thus help answer JasonK's question. |
I decline your invitation to be drawn into a semantic debate with a pedant. Jason asked how the CPR and FD work together. The link I provided contains a succinct, and correct answer to that query.
_________________
Toofah King Bad
- WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
larchie
Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Posts: 297
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:28 am Post subject: OT: Rasta Aagin |
|
|
Concerning three-sentence passage excerpted from a post I wrote, Rasta asserted:
| Rasta Monsta wrote: | | There is literally nothing correct about any of this. ... wildly incorrect |
Even so that passage was verified factually by specific statements from Hanes, Porsche 924 and Turbo Owners Workshop Manual, James Webber, Solving Bosch Continuous Injection System Problems, Bentley, Rabbit/Sirocco/Jetta Service Manual, and Course 4.03 Audi/Volkswagen Fuel Injection CIS.
Rasta has not denied the accuracy of this support, but instead writes:
| Rasta Monsta wrote: | | Your "summary" is your interpretation of a gaggle of unrelated quotes from different sources, and is not only wildly incorrect, but smacks of someone trying to regurgitate the expertise of others in an attempt to appear expert themselves when they are not. |
The referenced quotations were neither a summary nor an interpretation -- They were simply quotations from well-known authorities.
But here Rasta states:
| Rasta Monsta wrote: | | I would not call Bentley an authority on CIS. The proof is well laid out above. |
But Rasta has nothing above other than my summary and rather than saying the CIS section I quoted from the Factory Service Manual for Rabbit/Scirocco/Jetta, which says virtually the same thing as the passage he quoted, is "wildly mistaken." he merely asserts factory manual is not an authority on CIS.
Rasta refused to present any facts or explanation ; Rasta defends his judgments of "wildly mistaken" only by slanted words, exaggeration, and name-calling accompanied by italic and bold text to provide the necessary emphasis. He does not seem to realize that saying something is so, even if it's stated with bold and italicized text, does not make it so.
He states by way of response, however:
| Rasta Monsta wrote: | | The link I provided contains a succinct, and correct answer to that query. |
That link is a 13 page pager which is a good source and actually provides further support for my original post he questions. And it is indeed quite succinct. For anyone who might still have any doubt as to whether the short section in that paper is any different from my account, this is the entire text from that document explaining the relation between the CPR and the fuel pressure regulator work:
| Rasta's Source: Auto-Solve Diagnostic Assistance: Mechanical Fuel Injection wrote: | The internals of the warm-up-regulator are quite simple comprising an inlet and outlet port, a stainless steel shim, a bi-metalic heated strip and a spring.
The input to the warm-up-regulator flows into a small chamber in the top of the unit, its return is through a small drilling and back to the
metering head. By controlling this return flow it will cause a change in pressure acting on the top of the control plunger. With a cold engine
the flow must be fairly free giving it a lower pressure. This will allow a higher lift of the plunger which in turn will enrich the mixture under
these conditions. The free flow is obtained by the internal bi-metalic strip exerting a downward pressure on the spring which decreases
the pressure acting upon the shim, this lower force allows the fuel to flow almost uninterrupted.
As the bi-metalic strip is heated, by either it's heater element or natural heat soak from the engine, the downward pressure acting on the
spring is gradually decreased, increasing the force of the spring, which in turn increases the control pressure. |
I put the entire passage here to illustrate that this source as well as the other sources are quite consistent with my original description.
I'll not respond to the series of bullying, name-calling, repeated character attacks in Rasta's posts other than to point out it's a well-known axiom of a defense attorney in law that if you have no case, you attack someone's character.
I have made and also fully owed up to some errors in previous posts on this board, but I can't see that I've made any error on the issues here. Although Rasta refuses to acknowledge his hasty and mistaken initial impression of my account, I'm O.K. with that. But his ceaseless name-calling and uncharitable interpretations certainly discourage future attempts to either ask for or to provide help on this board. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
!tom
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1941
Location: Victoria, BC Canada
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Rasta Monsta wrote: | | The link I provided contains a succinct, and correct answer to that query. |
+1
_________________
78 924 NA
5-lug |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
924 FAQ (Technical)
