924Board.org

[OverdriveGear]

Hey Folks, just some quick background: I'm a watercooled VW guy through and through, VW diesels especially. I have been toying with the idea of diversifying my knowledge of VW group by getting into Porsche and a 931 seems like a good fit. Here's the car I'm looking at:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-924-turbo-1980-unbelievable-find-great-project-/330684611523?pt=Salvage_Parts_Cars&hash=item4cfe56bbc3&vxp=mtr

I have been doing some research in your forum and am surprised to find out that these 931 engine parts aren't as commonplace or as affordable as your garden variety Rabbit and Scirocco. This is giving me reason to pause about this project because what I really love about VWs are that they drive, they break down, you buy inexpensive OEM parts from AutohausAZ or Germanautoparts.com and repeat the cycle.

Since you all are experts, I would appreciate your advice about this particular 931 project car, what to expect, etc. Thanks!

[fiat22turbo]

First, welcome! You'll find that many of the parts are available, just not as easy to source as the rest of the VW/Audi powered wasserpumpers. The ones that have gone NLA are either supported with some of the smaller vendors or by finding something "close" in the aftermarket and modifying to fit.

Second, that car is worth maybe $500 as it sits and since it appears to be an Auto Atlanta ad, I'm not surprised of the price and I'd caution you to walk away unless you can get it for essentially scrap value. Search Auto Atlanta for an education (though dealing locally seems to be the key to not get screwed).

Third, since the engine is Audi in origin with modified MK1 Rabbit front suspension and modified Super Beetle rear suspension, either Audi or Porsche gearboxes, etc. I'd say its a great project for someone familiar with early Audi and VW water cooled cars.

Biggest challenges besides the cracked exhaust manifolds are snapped timing belts, corroded electrical connections, vacuum leaks and failed CIS components. The rest is pretty much maintenance (usually deferred meaning the new owner gets to play catch up) Suspension upgrades are available from many of the 944's, etc.
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Stefan
1979 924 Carrera GTS (clone-ish)
1988 944 Turbo S (Silver Rose)

[kcoyle]

What fiat22turbo said. That car has been advertised for a long time. The engine is in pieces, the repaint looks kinda weak, the front seats are probably shot, it has been sitting for a while, it's from AutoAtlanta, and finally there is some weird arm rest thingy behind the center console.
I'd pass.
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1982 931- Stock with MBC at 8psi

Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools. I can fix it.

[fiat22turbo]

I would look at these first:

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/cto/3501600569.html

http://valdosta.craigslist.org/cto/3468354135.html (please someone save it from this mouth-breather)

http://jacksonville.craigslist.org/cto/3481171507.html wow, that is quite the project.

If you want a non-turbo:

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/cto/3446266534.html (924 non-turbo)

Or if you want something newer:

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/eat/cto/3505851908.html (924S , a 944 in a slinky black dress)
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Stefan
1979 924 Carrera GTS (clone-ish)
1988 944 Turbo S (Silver Rose)

[brealytrent]

First off, no to that car you chose unless you get it for less than $500.

Secondly, with turbos the prices are a bit more expensive than the n/a's as you know, and a bit more of a bitch to fix due to cramped space. Parts unique to the car may not be in production any more, like motor mounts.

Third, early turbos like the one you pointed out have the porsche dogleg gearbox and it is a weak design. DON'T BUY UNTIL YOU CAN TEST DRIVE IT AND MAKE SURE IT IS NOT AN ISSUE. Otherwise you'll be in a search for a good transmission or attempting to replace syncros.

Fourth, Water is an issue with these. The battery box rots out, the rear hatch separates, the sunroof drains clog, and water can run into the heater fan and drip right onto your foot (ask me how I know). When looking at one, ask if water gets in the cabin, then ask if you can hose the car down to see yourself.

Fifth and last, most toofahs you'll find out there are in a sad state. Finding a good one is hard these days, and buying them can be a major headache. Continue searching, and NEVER buy a car sight unseen through the internet. I've made that mistake twice
_________________
1977 Porsche 924 - sold
1980 Porsche 931 - sold
1984 Porsche 928 'S2' Euro - sold
2016 Ford Fiesta ST - sold
2009 Porsche Cayman

[fiat22turbo]

BTW, all of the 924's and 944's are prone to leak for the reasons stated above. The 944 is the same chassis with the same exposed battery tray, plugging sunroof drains, etc. They are resolvable with some work, but it is a fact of life with the cars.

The 924's being earlier and bought on the cheaper end meant they suffered the most from stupid PO syndrome. Again, not the end of the world, but a fact of life. The 944's have fallen into this trap more recently and are more prone to engine damage due to timing belt failures, which is why so many are available with borked motors or have been swapped to Chebby power

The dogleg isn't the end of the world, make sure the linkage and bushings are in good shape, use Redline MTL only and DO NOT RUSH YOUR SHIFTS. They shift slowly (ask anyone with an early 914 or 911 as they are similar units). The later Audi units are slightly more robust it seems, but not ultimately necessary, IMO.
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Stefan
1979 924 Carrera GTS (clone-ish)
1988 944 Turbo S (Silver Rose)

[ideola]

DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT buy that piece of crap from Auto Atlanta.

As with most vintage cars, you should buy the absolute best example you can possibly afford, and then develop a budget to do preventive maintenance.

I absolutely LOVE the 931. However, you need to be realistic about what you are getting into. These are NOT cheap cars to restore OR to maintain. Of the 16 924s I've purchased since 2004, 10 have been turbos. Simply put, you will need to plan to spend AT LEAST $2K just in preventive maintenance. And that number could EASILY be 3x-4x if you get into any serious repairs or restoration. Sure, you can limp along with a $2K 931 and do the bare minimum, but you will be miserable for doing so.

For starters (no pun intended), you need to plan to replace the alternator, and the three major ground cables in the engine bay (battery to chassis, engine to chassis, and alt to engine). Every single 924 I've owned has left me stranded at least once due to an alternator issue. When the ground to the alt lets go, it WILL wipe out the voltage regulator, and when the voltage regulator lets go, it WILL wipe out other electrical components. I've lost more than one starter, fuel pump relay, and fuel pump due to this issue. So don't mess around. Plan to replace the alternator. It seems trivial, but it is the biggest PITA to get stranded by something so...trivial.

Unless you're lucky enough to find a 931 that has had the turbo already rebuilt / replaced, you need to plan on pulling the turbo and getting it rebuilt, and replacing all of the related seals during the process. Just plan on it.

If we haven't scared you off yet, post back, and I'll try to come up with a more complete "buyer's guide" (something I've been wanting to compile for a while). There are a bunch of other things to be aware of when you start seriously looking from.

Oh. And DO NOT buy that POS from Auto Atlanta.
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erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made

[D Hook]

I wouldn't even buy lug nuts from Auto Atlanta. Those guys can screw up even the simplest things.
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'80 924 n/a SOLD

[SlayerSST]

If you buy a 931 you would need to buy another 931 for parts.

[ideola]

[Captain_Kirk]

I would only look at cars that were still assembled. I'd hate to buy one in that condition that had engine parts all laying about. You would always be chasing a missing part to get it to run but you wouldn't know what you were missing.
"Where does this vac hose go, am I missing a coolant hose, what is this electical plug for?"
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1977 924na BlackSeaRD.com Torque Tube SuperBearings, Xenon air dam, 200# Weltmeister springs, Bursch header, 944 exhaust, Audi throttle body

[OverdriveGear]

Thanks everyone for the responses and excellent information. I am no stranger to difficult projects. My first was a 1972 Jensen-Healey that had a 2.0L series 1 Lotus Esprit engine it. Most all the parts were either NLA or super expensive.

I am educated enough now to know that the car in Atlanta isn't for my level of work at this point. I'll pass. But I'm still looking for the best 931 that I can find. Something that needs basic maintenance and preventative maintenance work. Not interested in rust repair, thrashed interiors, or body damage. Thinking something in the $1,000 to $1,500 range. But I clearly understand that every classic car has it's quirks about it. If I wanted a hassle free boring car, I'd get a Toyota!

[Nein37]

You're gonna be looking closer to the 3.5K range for a car that only needs some maintenance. You're unlikely to even find a car only needing minor attention and if you do, it is likely owned by someone here. A good running car, with a decent interior and decent paint, owned by a forum member, would likely be around 3.5K. You do see nice 931s coming up for sale from non-forum members but they usually think they are worth a lot more than we do.
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1981 931 CGT replica, OEM CGT intercooler, .8 BAR WG spring, GTS Headlights, Innovative Wide band A/F, A/C delete, 16" Fuchs, Weltmeister 200lb lowering springs, Bilstein HDs front, Koni Sport rears.

[kcoyle]

[Paul]

It is very easy to spend $10K on fixing up and driving a $3500 931 for 10 years or so. BTDT.
_________________
White 87 924S "Ghost"
Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
White 01 986 "Christine"
Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
Owned and repaired 924s since 1977
Porsche: It's not driving, it's therapy.