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Alex Roy
Joined: 03 Nov 2002
Posts: 694
Location: Springfield Oregon USA
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 Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:25 am Post subject: I need a Megasquirt .msq for 931....and Hello again! |
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Hello again all,
It's been a while since I've been around here, but I'm picking up my 931 project again. It's good to see there are still familiar "faces" around here.
I've been working on my other car for a while (a Miata with a turbo system I put together and megasquirt 1 running MSNS-e High Res 10g code) and am now ready to get back to the ol' Porsches.
I've got an MS1 v3.0 with relay board, GM IAT & CLT sensors, and a 14point7.com WB02 system ordered and on the way now, along with 42lb bosch injectors and an Endwrench fuel rail already in hand for the 931.
Does anybody have an .msq file they can send me to get started as a base line to tune on? PM me with details.
-Alex
Last edited by Alex Roy on Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:38 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Rasta Monsta
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11733
Location: PacNW
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:32 am Post subject: |
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Welcome back, great to see more Oregonians around. We have enough now for a little toofah driving tour this summer!
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Toofah King Bad
- WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3
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flosho
Joined: 01 Jul 2004
Posts: 3160
Location: Eau Claire, Wisconsin
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:29 am Post subject: |
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I can post a msq file, don't know how recent it is.. but it may get you running.
i run ms1 v3.0, edis, 42 lb/hr injectors, not the high res code tho.
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Alex Roy
Joined: 03 Nov 2002
Posts: 694
Location: Springfield Oregon USA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:07 am Post subject: |
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| That'd be great Flosho. I'll PM you my email address info. |
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flosho
Joined: 01 Jul 2004
Posts: 3160
Location: Eau Claire, Wisconsin
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| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:15 am Post subject: |
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Alright, read your pm, will send it this afternoon, I can post it in the thread as well.
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tuurbo
Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 1446
Location: East Windsor, New Jersey
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| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:04 am Post subject: |
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This is part of what I like about MegaSquirt and other related EFI setups - you get to file share and get a head start on a more personalized tune.
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1980 924 turbo, MSD, Meth. Inj, otherwise stock. |
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flosho
Joined: 01 Jul 2004
Posts: 3160
Location: Eau Claire, Wisconsin
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| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:48 am Post subject: |
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I sent you one Alex, its not THEE most recent, but it was from the day I ran my first autocross after converting to EFI(meaning I made 6 full throttle/autocross laps without blowing it up!) So it should get you a decent starting map.
*sorry its NOT the most recent as I put my car away 11/19 and didn't save a msq at that time..
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Last edited by flosho on Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Alex Roy
Joined: 03 Nov 2002
Posts: 694
Location: Springfield Oregon USA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:45 am Post subject: |
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| Thanks so much! I have next week to get parts installed and get it up and running. I'll update with my progress as it happens. |
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fiat22turbo
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 4040
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:18 am Post subject: |
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Can you send me a copy of that as well?
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Stefan
1979 924 Carrera GTS (clone-ish)
1988 944 Turbo S (Silver Rose) |
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flosho
Joined: 01 Jul 2004
Posts: 3160
Location: Eau Claire, Wisconsin
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| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:03 am Post subject: |
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Fiat, are you talking to me? Send/post your email and consider it done..
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Kenodog
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 2669
Location: Vancouver,B.C.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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Another person that's gone from the 931 to MX-5's ! Sweet !
Tomorrow I pick up my 3rd Miata,a 2001 SE with a BRP MP62 supercharger,intercooler etc.,200bhp in a 2440 lb. car
The "Modern" replacement to a 931 !
_________________
1979 Euro 931, Olive
1981 931, Sabine
1991 Ford Ranger XLT 4x4, Ricky
1996 Ford E-350 ex-FedEx Van
2014 Mazda CX-5 (Kinderwagon)
2019 KTM 790 Adventure
2024 KLX300
2024 KLX140 |
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RC
Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 2637
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Kenodog wrote: | Another person that's gone from the 931 to MX-5's ! Sweet !
Tomorrow I pick up my 3rd Miata,
The "Modern" replacement to a 931 ! |
Maybe, in modern times of acceptance and legislated tolerance towards members of minority groups expressing views of sexual diversity.
BUT 931`s dont have a reputation and public perception of being a gay persons car. 
Even other Miata owners agree:
From mmmiata.com
| Quote: | | As a gay hairdresser I like the car because it fits my style and the mirrors are big enough to pluck my eyebrows with. |
| Quote: | The ultimate gay car has to be a Miata...I saw one on the freeway -- two very cute men, and the license plate read "str8 not".
Lisa |
And forced induction ones too:
http://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t24823-3/
Meanwhile, back on topic, Tuurbo wrote:
| Quote: | | This is part of what I like about MegaSquirt and other related EFI setups - you get to file share and get a head start on a more personalized tune. |
Since youre not familiar with MS it is a DIY EFI educational exercise, at an economical hardware cost but an exorbitant price in man hours, especially for the beginner due to a very steep learning curve. It is far from a plug and play system (except for a few particular units) that still requires individual tuning. That is why it is not recommended as suitable for lazy, impatient, or persons with little or no mechanical aptitude or below average intelligence. A commercial ECU installed and tuned by a shop is for those people.
The MS forum is full of people seeking particular MSQ`s to "make it easier" or save the effort" of actually learning WTF they are doing and the affect on their motor. Many similar replies from those in the know are that every engine, set up, parameters and tuning are different and one incorrect setting may damage your engine. Even if there are 2 "identical" motors each will still run best on an individual tune. If you adjusted your own initial settings you at least have some idea where you`re at and if you read and comprehend the instructions perhaps some idea how and what to change to fix/ modify/ tune individual requirements and settings.
In this case with different code and ignition set ups the engine will not even fire let alone run without changing many settings. Very likely it will actually damage MS components and possibly more externally too. Makes it a lot harder, and more costly, in the long run when you dont know how or WTF to do. |
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Min
Joined: 04 Nov 2002
Posts: 2368
Location: Vernon, British Columbia, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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I recommend as I always do, to generate a fuel table, adjust your required fuel as per the instructions I've posted many times, and go from there.
| Quote: | Required Fuel is a "multiplier" , it is part of a math equation that determines
how long the injectors will stay open .
The Required Fuel number is a guess at the actual number
needed to create a specified Air to Fuel Ratio inside the engine .
The calculations are just to get you close to
what you want the engine to receive as far as AFR goes .
The real world is always slightly different than the math calculations ,
so , you guess at the number ,
or , use a calculator that guesses better than you do ,
to get the engine started and running .
Once the engine is started and running ,
you can adjust the number until you get the mixture you want ,
the mixture you want is a theoretical ideal mixture for
a given set of circumstances ,
most engines idle best at approximately 13.5 to 1 AFR ,
so , you adjust the Required Fuel number until you get that
reading on your WB-02 meter .
If you were to NOT adjust the Required Fuel number , but instead
tried to adjust the individual Bins in your VE Table , you would be creating
a small area on your VE Table that is "right" ,
but you are leaving everything else in the VE Table "WRONG" ,
Adjusting the Required Fuel number makes the
entire VE Table closer to "right" , by changing just one number ,
this will save you a ton off aggravation and tuning time .
You mixture is what ever your Wide Band 02 says it is ,
(as long as it has been set up correctly) ,
so if you're worried about your engine being lean ,
look at your AFR gauge , not at any other settings or numbers ,
The AFR gauge is what is .
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and here's another interesting qoute
| Quote: | The "textbook" perfect mixture is 14.7 to 1 ,
this is the exact mixture required to make a Catalytic Converter work ,
this is the only mixture a Narrow Band 02 sensor will accurately detect .
Maximum power is ~13.2 , some engines , especially turbos ,
run much richer than this to keep the mixture from Detonating under
heavy loads ,
the extra fuel does not burn ,
it is like spraying a mist of water on a fire to slow it down some .
Richer than ~11 to 1 will actually make Detonation worse .
Snappiest response is ~15 to 1 .
Best gas mileage is ~17 to 1 , but some engines complain awful loud and
just will not cooperate , requires a very good understanding of engines .
Idle is smoothest at ~13 to 1 ,
this depends on your cam and several other factors .
If you must pass a sniffer test , idle/cruise MUST BE 14.7 to 1 .
A big cam will want more fuel .
You need more fuel at idle because of exhaust gases diluting the
intake charge more and more , as the idle speed goes lower .
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and one more.
| Quote: | 1) First thing to do before you touch the VE Table is to Adjust your Required Fuel number
until you get around ~13.5 to 1 AFR , with a warmed-up engine at idle ,
2) Re-adjust your idle speed if necessary ,
3) double check your Trigger Offset number ,
4) Run AutoTune ,
5) Do not adjust anything else until you think you have a pretty good , smooth , VE Table .
After running AutoTune with the largest variety of rpms and load that you can ,
you will have to manually "smooth-out" the VE Table .
You will have some large peaks and probably some holes too ,
MS "averages" all of the Bins in a group , not just the one that is high-lighted ,
so when you have a peak , you not only need to reduce the peak , you also need to raise-up
all the Bins that surround the peak , same with a hole , you need to raise the hole back up and
lower all the Bins surrounding the hole ,
then the next time you run AutoTune the Table will not be so screwed-up ,
you may have to do this 3 or 4 times before your Table starts to get into good shape .
Some of the Bins are almost impossible to adjust with AutoTune because the
engine just doesn't go there very often , on these Bins you will have to "guesstimate" what
the values should be by comparing the nearest Bins a making an average of them .
When you look at your VE Table in graph form you can see whether or not it is smooth ,
use your up/down/right/left arrow keys to move the red X around ,
when you get on a problem spot press and hold the "Shift" key ,
then use the up/down arrow keys to make the Table smooth ,
then run AutoTune again , repeat , repeat .
The WB-02 settings that work well with AutoTune are too much for a normal idle ,
when you get the idle areas figured-out , you need to restrict your EGO settings
so that the WB-02 doesn't work at idle speeds .
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recap in case you don't want to read all that.
Generate a ve table using your guesses, get the car started using the instructions in the megamanual, adjust your required fuel until the idle is 13.5:1 or so, this should scale your VE table to were it should be. From there, fine tune it with autotune, or the ve analyzer, or by hand if your into that.
using someone else's ve table, is not a good idea imo. You never know what they've got going on, maybe their fuel pressure regulator has a different response curve than yours does? (1:1 is not always 1:1 in reality)... Tuning your own from scratch is pretty easy once you've got a AFR table fleshed out, do you have a AFR table?
Min
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Custom means it didn't come from a box.
1980 n/a with EDIS and Megasquirt II Injection. 7 different colors and counting. |
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Alex Roy
Joined: 03 Nov 2002
Posts: 694
Location: Springfield Oregon USA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 3:20 am Post subject: |
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Anybody that has to bring up the "miatas are for gays" topic obviously hasn't driven one....they rock! They are the most fun and enjouable car to drive I have ever been in.
...and with a 250hp 15psi turbocharged sub 2500lb car...you get the idea.
Besides, the Miata being the modern 931 is pretty fitting. The miata is a gay car to those not in the know, and the 924/931 is the red-headed step child....sounds like a good equal to me.
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Kenodog
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 2669
Location: Vancouver,B.C.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:30 am Post subject: |
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Oh,well,I guess if those are actual quotes then I don't really have a 3rd leg to stand on do I.....?
Huh.
It's off to the Hummer dealer to get myself a "real" man's car tomorrow.Thanks RC for letting me know about that whole "gay" car thing before I made a big mistake ! It`s smart guys like you that give Australia the reputation of being `The best little state of New Zealand".
Hey Alex,if you're ever in this neck of the woods drop us a line and let's go for a rip.
_________________
1979 Euro 931, Olive
1981 931, Sabine
1991 Ford Ranger XLT 4x4, Ricky
1996 Ford E-350 ex-FedEx Van
2014 Mazda CX-5 (Kinderwagon)
2019 KTM 790 Adventure
2024 KLX300
2024 KLX140 |
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