924Board.org

Duncan · Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:45 am Post subject: 'weak' clutch center

Today I had my car checked by an independent organisation. It is actually the organisation that provides all the road signs in the Netherlands. They have these Technical Centres where you can go for a pre-purchase check of a car or for a technical consult.

I experience a certain amount of drivetrain judder, when driving in heavy traffic for a while ( traffic jams every day here), and some shifting difficulties.

The verdict is that the CV joints have to much play, and both tranny mounts as well as the right side engine mount are broken/on the way out.
Furthermore, the expert told me my 1 year old, professionally installed clutch has (some) play on the driveshaft and a 'weak' centre. He was actually able to rotate the clutch on the driveshaft a bit, without any spring induced resistance.
The report says that he suspects the clutch plate to be a rebuild clutch disk,
i.e. an older one fitted with new lining.
Recommended repairs include changing the broken mounts (fair enough) and replacing the clutch disk.

I am really surprised and worried about my clutch, should I be?
(924 1983 ROW)

Lizard · Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:25 am Post subject:

how much movement are we speaking here, if alittle bit then no, if MASSIVE amounts then yes.
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3 928s,

Duncan · Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:20 pm Post subject:

Some play, I do not know how much.
But is it common to refurbish clutch plates?

Lizard · Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:33 am Post subject:

yes it is very common to refurb clutch discs.
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3 928s,

Duncan · Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:43 am Post subject:

Thanks Lizard,

So how do I know that the clutch disk I have in my car is a refurbished one or a new one??

Duncan

Lizard · Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:45 am Post subject:

no way to really tell, the only way to know is when you buy it,

if the jerking isnt REALLY bad, then I would live with it
if it is more than you can take, do the whole clutch job while your at it, no point in going in there to replace just the disc and having the throw out bearing go another 1000 miles down the road.
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3 928s,

Duncan · Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:48 am Post subject:

Eh... the complete clutch job was performed about a year ago

,
including the throw out bearing etc.

Lizard · Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:52 am Post subject:

oh, how many miles and did you buy the parts? if you didnt go to the shop and ask them if they purchase reman parts, or NEW, if they say reman show them what has happened.

but fix the other pieces that have slop and see if you can live with the play,
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3 928s,

gohim · Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 4459 Location: Rialto, CA

I would be not trust that report if I were you.

In fact, I would question the inspector about how he/she determined that that is play in the driveshaft/clutch, since the 924 has a sealed driveline.

You can't just look under the car or grab the driveshaft tp rotate the driveline pm a 924 (or 931. 924S,944, etc...), since the driveshaft is total enclosed in the drive tube that is bolted between the engine and the transmission.

I suppose that if you could get a ligh up into the clutch housing, and turn the wheels while watching the driveshaft flange you might be able to see if there was any play or slack at the clutch disc, but again, I can;t see what that would prove.

If you checked you would find some play in every car made between the drive wheels and the transmission output flanges. The question is, what would constitute excess play.

When you had the clutch done last year, did you personally buy new parts, or rebuilt used parts, or used parts? Did you inspect them before having them installed? You do realize that part of the rebuilding/renewal process for clutch discs is the removal, and testing and/or replacement of the springs?

Duncan · Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 5:04 am Post subject:

If I understood correctly the inspector said the outer part of the clutch disk, i.e. the part with the lining could be rotated a certain angle with respect to the hub of the clutchdisk, without any resistance. How he did this check I do not know.

While I have your attention Gohim. When I was reading the Haynes, about removal of the gearbox, I was wondering how the driveshaft housing is supported when you remove the gearbox. It is just cantilevering from the clutch bellhousing??

Today I talked to the mechanic who installed the clutch. The car will be inspected by him soon.

Duncan

gohim · Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 4459 Location: Rialto, CA

Again, I would have to ask... How did the inspector determine that the clutch disk section containing the clutch lining could move XX degress, without the clutch center moving without any resistance?

YOU CANNOT SEE ANYTHING BETWEEN THE CLUTCH HOUSING AND THE TRANSMISSION MOVE FROM THE BOTTOM OF THE CAR ON A 924. Everything is covered.

I suppose that from the engine compartment, you could remove the spark plugs, and put a wrench on the crankshaft. But how how you measure the degrees of movement of the outter section of the clutch disc in relation to the driveshaft? You can't even see the driveshaft.

I think your the inspector" is blowing smoke up your rear.

I think that if the mechanic wastes his time, checking out the clutch job, and it turns out to be a wild goose chase, he deserves to be paid at the posted rate for all the time he wastes. And if the inspection turns out to be a wild goose chase (as I expect it will be), you should be all of your money back for the"inspection", plus whatever the mechanic charges you for wasting his time.

Duncan · Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:35 am Post subject:

Gohim,
Thank you for your reaction
I frankly do not know how he did this.
I will be hearing more tomorrow from all parties involved.

Sincerely,

Duncan