924Board.org

[rdudejr]

Hey guys,

I just joined your forum because I've recently bought a 924s, 87 model, and Id like to first say that I'm very impressed with the clarity of the website as well as its infomativeness. You guys seem to know what your talking about. Id like to preface this post by saying that my knowledge of cars is limited to changing oil But I am willing to learn, so feel free to educate me.

This car was purchased at an auction for 2100 and cost me about 2500 when it was all said and done. A friend of mine told me after I bought it that it was not worth that money, so I'm looking to see if I need to sell this car for what I can get or keep it and invest in it. The cars odometer says 40,000 miles but as Im sure you all know, there is no place for a 6th digit, so it could have 140,000 miles, 240,000 miles, I really dont know.

The leather in the car is flawless (almost like a brand new car) and from owning a car previously that had leather, I do know that it begins to crack at around 120-150,000 miles, so Im hoping that this is an indication of the cars actual mileage being around 40000. Once again, im a novice which is why Im asking you guys.

Outside of that, the car shifts smoothly, and the engine sounds excellent. One thing I did notice was when you come off the gas in any gear, you can hear a faint grinding noise, and when you reapply gas, the car does a slight jerk foward, more than what would normally happen from the foward movement of the car. The car does the rough idle like ive heard a number of you talk about, but it only sounds rough on the inside. From the outside the car sounds beautiful.

The paint is obviously redone as you can see an orange peel effect around the wheels and the clear coat has a number of "clouds". A paint job Im sure will be in order. The tires have even wear on the tread, and a good amount of tread as well. There is tint on both windows but the driver window tint is peeling.

As far as mechnicle defects on the body, the trunk hydrolics appear to be weak as the trunk will not stay up on its own. The passenger side door handle is stuck (if you can understand this, the mechinism beneath the handle that you pull toward you when you open the door is jammed inward and the door cannot be opened from the outside or the inside). Outside of those things, the body is in very good shape.

All that being said, I would like to know about the average value of the car (i believe i paid too much) as well as the difficulty of repairing the above items. If I were to keep the car, I would be driving it about 30 miles to work and back each day along with the occasional road trip every month or so. Do you think this is a good car or should I look to selling it? Any feedback is greatly appreciated and if you need additional information let me know.
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[gohim]

Welcome.

How much is too much is a is question not easily answered.

Is $2100 too much? Depends on what you expected to get for $2100, and what you are planning to do to the car.

Leather interior (if you really did get it) will last almost forever and certainly longer than 150K miles, if you take take of it on a constant and regular basis (biweekly cleaning and conditioning).

If you didn't like the paint job, and didn;t want to repaint it, why did you buy it. A decent paint job will cost thosands of dollars, especially since the car has been repainted already and the paint will have to be completely stripped before repainting again (painting over a repaint invites peeling after a short time).

After the purchase of any 944 engined car without maintenance history, the first order of business is the critical every 30K mile or 3-year "front of engine service". The replacement of the front of engine components on a regular basis is critical to the continuing health of the engine. Otherwise you risk sudden and expensive damage to the engine. This is going to cost you $1500-$2500, and must be done immediately if you did not receive service records that show that the work has been done in the past 3 years or 30K miles.

You have not given enough information to make a good guess at what could be up with the symptom that you noticed "when coming off the gas"? Could be signs that the clutch is giving out, or could be the why your are driving the car, or could be nothing. But, clutch replacement costs $1200-$1500 (minimum).

Can you drive the car 30 miles eace way to work on a daily basis? Sure, after you get the problems sorted out, why not?

Should you bail out? Depends on what you are looking for. Does your friend know what he is talking about when it comes to Porsches? Or, is he just jealous?

Personally, depending on whether you got service records, and how nad the paint job is, I think you may have been able to find a better car for less money (or could have paid less money for a car needing the work that yours is going to need). But that is all water under the bridge now. You own the car, and while you could try running it back through the auction, and take your loss (I don't know how much of your money you will get back, depends on the pidgeons that are in the auction crowd that day).

Bottom line is, your $2500 is gone, and is not coming back. You probably need to sink another $2500-$3500 into the car to get it into good running condition, and after you do, it is doubtful if you could immediately turn around and sell the car for the $6000 that you would have in it. But owning a Porsche is not about the money you drop into it, it's about the driving experience. If you were looking for a cheap car, and thought you were going to impress your friends by owning a Porsche, you might as well get rid of the car now and take your loss.

[Modoc]

I carfaxed his car for him.... heres some information on it....


ALERT! Major odometer problems were reported by a DMV under the Truth-In-Mileage Act for this 1987 PORSCHE 924S (WP0AA0926HN453978). This vehicle does NOT qualify for the CARFAX Buyback Guarantee.

Not Actual Mileage Title - issued by DMV when the owner discloses mileage fraud or a broken odometer.

05/04/1992 Florida
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Melbourne, FL
Title #44191653
New owner reported
NOT ACTUAL MILEAGE TITLE ISSUED
Loan or lien reported
Registered as lease vehicle

CARFAX AdvisorTM
A NAM title is issued when the owner discloses mileage fraud or a broken odometer to a DMV. The actual mileage of this vehicle is unknown.

Mileage reported after this reading is potentially unreliable.


I mean, just because it has 140,000 on it... doesnt mean much there are plenty of 924s's out there that run fine well into the 200,000 range... its the question is if you have a good mechanic you can trust, use him find out whats going on how many miles it has on it... and if your unhappy, sell it, find another one...

[rdudejr]

Thanks guys for your insite, and thanks alot for the guy who did the carfax lookup. I believe im going to try and find a porchse mechanic around here and see if he can tell me what maintance things are due soon. Now heres another question for you guys. Where do you normally get replacement parts? The things i know I will need to replace are:

Passenger side door handle assembly
Back Hatch hydrolics

i found the door handle for $148 on an online site somewhere and am having a hard time believing that price. But if that price is realistic I think I'l go ahead and get it. From what Ive read, in order to replace the handle the inside panel has to be removed, but I think with some help that wont be terribly difficult. Thanks alot everyone for your great replies and keep them coming, even if its just a link to another post!
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[D Hook]

Did any records come with the car? If not, you're probably up for the belt repacement, like Gohim says. It's pricey.

Try ebay for the other parts. They're very common and easy to find. The hatch shocks you'll want to buy new though; used won't last. And be sure you get ones that are made for the 924S, not the 944. Your S has a smaller wing on the back and the stronger 944 ones may break the seal on the hatch up at the top by the hinges. A common problem on all 924's and most 944's is the glass seperating from the frame at the top of the hatch. It's extremely difficult (but not impossible) to reattach the glass to the frame. Most window shops won't touch it. But some guys on this board have successfully done it.

BTW, what color door handle do you need? I've got some extras but they're brown. What condition is the dash in?

[rdudejr]

Unfortunately the only documentation I have is the title, and a 5 dollar gas receipt :-p. Thnx for the info. I believe the handle is black and i was noticing their is some kind of wood grain texture that is on the center part of the door handle. Not sure if that helps at all. Either way what ever color gets me around 150 bucks is fine And when you say that the timing belt was expensive, are you referring to the parts, the labor, or both? Because I will probably do the repairs myself with the help of a mechanic i know.
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[D Hook]

Sorry, you're refering to the exterior door handle. I was referring to the interior door handle. It could be that you don't need a new piece, maybe something like the cable inside has become disconnected. Won't know until you get inside to look I guess.

The parts and labor are pretty pricey for the belt change, as Gohim said. If you do it yourself, it will be a considerable savings but I'll let others speak to that. Mine is an '80 so I have a non-interference motor which isn't as bad if the belt breaks.

[D Hook]

Sorry, you're refering to the exterior door handle. I was referring to the interior door handle. It could be that you don't need a new piece, maybe something like the cable inside has become disconnected. Won't know until you get inside to look I guess. Those are easily available used on ebay if you need one. The very early ones were sometimes chrome, sometimes black with the black insert you spoke of. Either way, they're easy to find.

The parts and labor are pretty pricey for the belt change, as Gohim said. If you do it yourself, it will be a considerable savings but I'll let others speak to that. Mine is an '80 so I have a non-interference motor which isn't as bad if the belt breaks.

[924guy]

the belt service can be tricky,and its a pita as well. the belt has to be precisely tensioned, and if you mess it up, pop goes your top end, it isnt pretty... anyone with a little mechanical aptitude can do it, so long as you do your home work, and get the right tensioning tool. the porsche tool is $400+ but there are a few alternatives which will work if properly used. (key word is "properly".)
without knowing the history, i wouldnt even drive the car until you get the front end service done..its that critical.

as for the rest, it looks like you got a reasonable deal, not great, but not horrible either. do the front end service, and drive the heck out of it, youll enjoy it very much...
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Eric
78 924
82 931 SE "smokey"
99' VehiCross
Y2K Honda Insight
http://www.cardomain.com/id/924Guy
Performance by Pasha

[Paul]

Please post some pictures of the interior, the exterior, and the engine compartment and we will be able to better estimate it's worth.
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White 87 924S "Ghost"
Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
White 01 986 "Christine"
Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
Owned and repaired 924s since 1977
Porsche: It's not driving, it's therapy.

[gohim]

You should be able to get a door handle for less than $150.

All 924S came with black door handles. Early 924 cars came with either black or chrome.

I have a spare passenger side door handle, if youwant to buy one. When I bought my car the driver's side handle was broken, so I bought a pair of new handles. I never replaced the passenger side, because it still works fine.

If you want my new passenger side handle, you can have it for $100, including shipping.

If you are willing to take a used handle, I will accept $50, including the shipping. That should be enough incentive to make me go out to the garage and change the handle out.

You don't have to remove the inside door panel to replace the door handle. It's a pain in the ass, and you will need some long, long needle nose, and needle nose right angle pliers, but you can replace the handle from the outside.

I actually buy a lot of my parts from authorized Porsche Dealers. Get a copy of Excellence Magazine. You will find a large number of authorized Dealers that will sell you parts at a discount from Porsche AG suggested retail. Also, the retail price on many parts is lower from Porsche anyway, because the Aftermarket Sellers are buying parts from Porsche and marking the price up.

There are plenty of quality aftermarket parts companies. There are also lots of bad ones that take out big ads in magazines. Some companies to stay away from: Automobile Atlanta, GPR (German Parts & Restoration), and Vertex. Many people have had slow shipping problems with a company named PAP, I have nto had a problem with them. Some good companies: Performance Products, Paragon Products, EBS (Engine Builders Supply), Europroducts, StopShopand Drive.com, and ZIMS.

If you are going to do your own work, you are going to need to BUY a decent set of mechanics tools, AND some specialized tools for working on the timing belts, if you decide to try. The official tools to do the timing belt (anything on the front end of the engine that is...) are going to cost you around $600-$700, and those tools are only used on the 944, 924S, 951, 968, and 928.

You should also have the Factory Workshop Manual, especially since you have already admitted that you are not very familiar with working on cars. Much of the engine in aluminum alloy, and unforgiving if you over tighten fasteners. Make sure that you have good torque wrenches (different torque ranges) and know how to use them properly.

[rdudejr]

wow..alot to think about. Im glad someone thinks i didnt get ripped though and the pictures, I will take a bunch 2morrow and post them all. I just got the car friday and havnt had time. And as for the work, I plan on getting a friend of mine who does performance customizations on imports to help me, so Im sure he knows somewhat what hes doing. And as for the door handle, if him and I cant get it fixed Tuesday (thats when hes looking at it) I'll take you up on that used one. Im not picky about a new one. To be honest, part of the reason why Im getting pretty excited to keep this car is because of how helpful you guys are. These cars seem to be very well built and you guys seem to know the ins and outs of them. Oh as a side note, what alternate tools are u referring to for the timing belt. I dont know if im mistaken, but i thought that i read somewhere that you can tune it based upon its pitch? (sound) and there is a recording of how it should sound? The article i read said that that was risky to do but I was curious. Thanks guys for the great feedback, keep it coming.

Rick
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[rdudejr]

Hey guys, I took some pictures with my camera phone of the car and sent them to those of you who posted and have your emails displayed. If anyone wants a link to the pics shoot me your email then I can have the link emailed to you. And gohim, can you explain to me what front of engine service exactly entails?
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[gohim]

Specialty tools made specifically for the 944/924S engine that you need are: flywheel lock (critical to holding engine without rotating while servicing the timing belt, and needed to hold the chankshaft when loosening and tightening the crankshaft pulley which drives the oil pump). I have heard somepeople claim that you can remove the starter motor, and jam a screwdriver in against the flywheel flywheel teeth, but I would not want to risk the flywheel teeth, damage to the alloy engine block, to try to save $25-$35 on the tool. You should also have the balance shaft wrench, used to hold the balance shafts while you are tightening or loosening the retaining nuts for the pulleys. This is a $30-$40 tool and again, you might be able to get away without, if you want to try jamming a couple of punches into the balance shaft pulleys, and counterholding with a big screw drive wedged between them. To me, it isn't the risk of the damage to the engine conponents, or me, to try to save the $30 that this tools costs. You will also need a very thin open end wrench, the Porsche P9201 belt tension gauge, and the calibrator for the P9201(P9201 and calibrator cost about $500).

Working on a 944/924S engine is nothing like working on a Chevy or Rice Rocket. One slip (error in assembly or tightening) while you are changing the belts, and you will be looking for a replacement engine.

[Helstrm]

As far as the front end service. It includes the Timing belts, Balance shaft belts all of the rollers and a waterpump. While you are in there go ahead and replace the Front seals because if you have an oil leak later you have to remove everything anyway. I would also think about replacing the rod bearings if you mechanic buddy has a lift you can do this while the engine is still in the car and you won't have to worry about the #2 rod bearing failure that these cars are known for. (Good idea because of the unknown mileage) Just drop the crossmember and the oilpan and you are there. If you do the rod bearing and the front end service you should be good for a while.

Don't get scared away from doing these things yourself. As long as you take your time and follow everything these guys are telling you it is not that hard and it is a lot of fun. There are also cheaper tension tools avasilable but I am not sure how reliable they are. Oh and don't forget to retension the belt after a couple of thousand miles. If the belt goes you are in for a world of hurt. The it becomes time to send off the head, Buy new valves and you can also toast pistons and your block...