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Changing oil pan while engine is still in car.
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1982Porsche924  



Joined: 14 Nov 2002
Posts: 679
Location: Cupertino, CA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2003 1:05 pm    Post subject: Changing oil pan while engine is still in car. Reply with quote

This weekend I changed pans, and AznDrgn recommended that I post the procedure on the board so that if anyone else wants to do it, they could benefit from some help. It's a bit harder than if the engine was out of the car, but those of you with leaky pans and that aren't car experts, here are some instructions that worked for me.

REMOVAL OF CROSSMEMBER
In order to have access to removing the pan, a couple of things have to come out. The steering rack, crossmember and sway bar need to be dropped, not too hard, and especially easier if you have an impact wrench.
1. Undo the tie rod ends. The collet pin comes out, then undo the nut, and go at it with a pickle fork. Heating up the parts might help out, but a pickle fork and sledge worked fairly well for me, and took minimal effort.
2. Remove the sway bar, 4 bolts, easy to do.
3. Undo the steering rack, there are 4 bolts that attack it to the crossmember, and one that connects it to the steering column, the bolt on the steering column must come ALL THE WAY out, loosening it will not allow the column to be disconnected. Then, undo the two large bolts that hold the a-arms to the crossmember.
4. Removing the crossmember is fairly easy, undo the O2 sensor, and the points where the wire is attached to the crossmember, then go for the vibration damper, there should be 2 nuts, and a deep socket works best., the vibration damper might turn, if then, hold it down with some vice grips, and you should be good, then undo the 4 bolts that attach the crossmember to the frame rails. Now you are ready to work on the oil pan.

REMOVAL OF OIL PAN
Removing the oil pan isn't too hard, but there was one bolt that gave me trouble. There are around 7 bolts (too lazy to go downstairs and count the number of holes) holding each side of the oil pan to the block, and the front, the back, and the second to back bolts are different sizes, you need to mark them off. The rest of the bolts are the same size.
1. Remove all of the bolts, there is one on the higher side of the oil pan that is hard to reach because of the motor mount, use a regular allen (not a socket attachment) and turn it about 1/4 of a turn at a time, remove allen, insert, and turn another 1/4 till it's out. Takes a long time, but there is no other way, all the other bolts can be done with a regular ratchet (i used air ratchet, saves time) and some require extenders.
2. There are 3 bolts that hold the oil pan to the bellhousing, 2 are easy to reach and you will know them when you see them, both are easily accessible from the bottom of the car. Then there is the one bolt that shows how much the engineers love you (sarcasm). This bolt is hard to access, and you will most definetly need a friend to help you. Accessibilty is only from the bottom, and your friend will need to help guide you from the top, it is next to the hole to do the timing on the bellhousing. Use a breaker bar and 3/4 inch socket, go from the bottom of the car, inserting the bar on the drivers side of the drive shaft, and have your friend tell you where the bolt is, break the bolt and then you can use an air ratchet or a close ratio hand ratchet, most regular ratchets don't have the range of motion to get the bolt out.
3. Pop off the oil pan, shake it a little, might need some help out, and scrape off the old gasket. The old gasket is most likely caked onto the block, and a couple of razor blades should do the trick, but it takes a long time. be careful around the oil pump, because it is made of aluminum rather than the harder cast iron of the block, and scratches fairly easily. When you are scraping off the old gasket, make sure none of the shavings land on the crankshaft, covering it might be a good idea.

INSTALLATION OF PAN
Unlike removing the engine, and placing it on a stand, gravity is against you on installing the new gasket, and it shifts if not done properly, resulting in a messy problem.
1. Apply sealant to the engine block side of the gasket. Figure out the side that needs to have sealant, and don't place any of the gakset sealer on the oil pan side. Place the gasket onto the block, and insert 3-4 (make sure you use the outside bolts, and 2 middle) bolts on each side of the block(the oil pan bolts) to make sure that the gasket doesn't move and gets aligned properly (No need to tighten, just place them in, and give it a couple turns). Put some pressure on the gasket, to make sure it is set against the block, and wait about 10 minutes for the sealant to get tacky. Remove the bolts, and bolt on the pan with 3-4 bolts again, nice and tight, so that the gasket seals properly. This will glue the gasket to the block, and allow it to hold when you do the rest of the job. Go get a snack, and watch TV.
2. An hour or so later, take off the pan with the 3-4 bolts that you attached it with. The gasket should now be fairly firmly attached to the block, and alignment shouldn't be an issue. Apply the sealant to the gasket (oil pan side) and pop the oil pan onto it, bolt. Attach the bolts that hold the pan to the block first, and tighten them fairly well. The bolt that is close to the motor mount will be a hassle, once again, and the same technique used to loosen it, needs to applied to tighten it. Attach the bigger bolts, but you can do this later, after the gasket sets. Make sure to use proper torque specs. I did them by feel, and I'll check the Haynes for the ones ones that hold the pan to the bellhousing. Remember to let the sealant dry for the specified time it says on the label.

Admins, if you think this procedure is good, maybe you can add it to the FAQ on 924.org.
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1979 Porsche 924 "S"
Engine: Euro pistons, Light Flywheel, Weber TB, Bursch Header, Cam Wheel
Suspension: Front coil-overs, adj sways, Solid bush. Thicker tors. bars, 5-bolt, BBS rims
Body: Fiberglass widebody kit, 931 Nose
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Joes924Racer  



Joined: 03 Nov 2002
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Location: Oregon, Denver Colorado native!

PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2003 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What kind of sealent for the gaskets do you
recommend...hylomar is about the best
stuff it stays wet so you can remove the
pan again and not ruin the gasket??
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1979 porsche 924 Na
1980 porsche Turbo 931GT Replica
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Peter_in_AU  



Joined: 29 Jul 2001
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Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2003 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

email a copy to Vaughan in case he missed it. Even though the board search is finally working right (honest) it belongs in the 924.org Tech Section.

Well done.
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MAD-924  



Joined: 05 Apr 2003
Posts: 55

PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2003 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Am I the only person on this board who didn't need to dismantle the tierod ends just to change the oilpan with the engine still in the car!?!? It's been awhile since I've done it but I know I sure didn't need to do that on my '79 924.
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1982Porsche924  



Joined: 14 Nov 2002
Posts: 679
Location: Cupertino, CA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2003 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In order to drop the steering rack, the tie rods must come out, otherwise you have to undo the balljoints that are attached to the actual rack. I used Permatex gasket sealer, Hylomar wasn't at my local auto store.
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1979 Porsche 924 "S"
Engine: Euro pistons, Light Flywheel, Weber TB, Bursch Header, Cam Wheel
Suspension: Front coil-overs, adj sways, Solid bush. Thicker tors. bars, 5-bolt, BBS rims
Body: Fiberglass widebody kit, 931 Nose
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Joes924Racer  



Joined: 03 Nov 2002
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Location: Oregon, Denver Colorado native!

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2003 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmm
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Joes924Racer  



Joined: 03 Nov 2002
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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2003 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tie the rack out of the way
I just freed it from ther crossmember and tied it to the 23mm swaybar
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1980 porsche Turbo 931GT Replica
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1982Porsche924  



Joined: 14 Nov 2002
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Location: Cupertino, CA

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2003 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh by the way, the sealant worked great, not a drop of oil leaks.

Edit - If you don't tighten the top most bolt that attaches the pan to the bellhousing, the bellhousing will move when the clutch is pressed, causing poor alignment and more freeplay, make sure to tighten the sucker to about what the Haynes says, otherwise the clutch won't be able to be full depressed.
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1979 Porsche 924 "S"
Engine: Euro pistons, Light Flywheel, Weber TB, Bursch Header, Cam Wheel
Suspension: Front coil-overs, adj sways, Solid bush. Thicker tors. bars, 5-bolt, BBS rims
Body: Fiberglass widebody kit, 931 Nose
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78 924 N/a  



Joined: 20 Mar 2003
Posts: 769
Location: Pacific N.W.

PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2003 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use Permatex No.80 Super Weatherstrip Adhesive for that PERMANENT
SEAL THAT WILL NEVER LEAK, EVER, NEVER. Really. No tiny weeps, nothing.

Good luck ever breaking that seal though, should you ever need too. It's pretty damn tough to get apart.
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numbbers  



Joined: 05 Nov 2002
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Location: Highlands Ranch, Colorado

PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2003 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, has anyone determined if the primary cause of oil leaks is the pan gasket, or the rear main seal. I have always had an oil leak at the back of the pan, but this year it has become much worse.
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Lizard  



Joined: 03 Nov 2002
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Location: Abbotsford BC. Canada

PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2003 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

numbbers wrote:
So, has anyone determined if the primary cause of oil leaks is the pan gasket, or the rear main seal. I have always had an oil leak at the back of the pan, but this year it has become much worse.


I would have to say the main cause for leaks in the distributor housing to the head,
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78 924 N/a  



Joined: 20 Mar 2003
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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2003 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that the MAIN CAUSE for leaks is excessive crankcase pressure, that is besides the decades-old and inferior materials used in the original gaskets and seals..
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wada23  



Joined: 30 May 2003
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Location: Millet, Alberta

PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2003 1:19 pm    Post subject: changing oil pan gasket while engine is in car Reply with quote

I have to agree with MAD-924 comment

I removed my oil pan without removing the tie rod ends also. Only problems I had was that the pan got a little hung up on AC and on engine mount.

Wayne
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Doodle  



Joined: 25 Nov 2002
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2003 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey wada23. Another near Edmontonian. That makes 4 of us. Welcome a 924board.
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Joes924Racer  



Joined: 03 Nov 2002
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2003 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The clutch lever messed me up I would have to tilt the pan then once it was on Id be worried that it was messen the gasket up. I trusted it though and torqued it down only to have a part of the rubber gasket get chewed away by the flywheel causing a major hemorage right aftr putting in a$130.00 set of rings .So I took it off and moved the lever out of the way
and repositioned the gaskets and it worked fine. I put the the rings in to with the block in the car.
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