924Board.org

[MikeJinCO]

I've been using a gear reduction starter on the NA motor race car, they are much smaller than the stock one. It left today for rework and I have to put a stock one in. Does anyone have recommendations for heat shielding with the headers down in that area? I do not have insulating wrap on the headers, I do have some of the sticky back heat reflective aluminum sheet.
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Mike


'67 MG Midget Dp
'71 Ocelot Dsr Kawasaki 1000(under rebuild)

[Fifty50Plus]

Mike, I used about 2-3 feet of header wrap just on the headers near the starter. I tied it with wire like a twistie-tie Its been fine for 3 years.
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1979 924 NA race car H-Prod SCCA
1982 924 NA race car - Sold
1981 924 Turbo sold
1982 924 Turbo sold
1972 911 E race car - traded for Cayenne Diesel
1975 914 1.8 Building for H-Prod SCCA

[924RACR]

I created a small heat shield to put in there, replicating the original stock one, using very thin aluminum with an additional layer of adhesive-backed reflective insulator like you're describing (used the gold foil in my case since that's what I've had around). It works pretty well, better than header wrap IMO since more air gap for insulation.

Though I'll admit the most critical mod for getting the best hot starter function was to add a remote solenoid; haven't run that without the heat shield, but it doesn't fail to restart now after coming off the track.

FWIW I no longer run header wrap... though I have a beat-up rusty old header in there now, overdue for replacement.
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Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype

[MikeJinCO]

Thanks, I'll see what I can do.
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Mike


'67 MG Midget Dp
'71 Ocelot Dsr Kawasaki 1000(under rebuild)

[MikeJinCO]

Progress, need to to a bit more wiring. I got the starter in, some weird socket extension combinations to get around the headers. I set it up for a remote solenoid as I had one on hand as that was the original plan, but the gear deduction starter didn't allow it they said. I looked at wrapping the headers, but saw several hours of frustration ahead in the very limited space available. So after making cardboard templates I bent up a sheet metal shield that bolts to two of the oil pan bolts. The plate has a section of plumbing solder heat cloth riveted to it and then covered with heat reflective material. Being a higher altitude I have many more heat problems as I lose about 17-20% of both power and heat conduction capability compared to lower altitude.
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Mike


'67 MG Midget Dp
'71 Ocelot Dsr Kawasaki 1000(under rebuild)

[924RACR]

That's pretty much the setup we're running, then - you won't regret it!

I used the riveted fiberglass cloth previously, the gold foil was just handier and I had a lot for the other car to spare.

Yeah, wraps are definitely something to do while the header is out...
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Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype

[Lakeview]

I realize this is a few years old but I've been searching threads for hours.

Question is kinda unrelated but here goes.

My 83 924 NA starter quit. I got a high torque unit for replacement.

The original starter has two small wires on the solenoid on two different lugs. The high torque starter only has one.

I just got the original off yesterday and haven't chased the two wires. Plus I really suck at schematics! Since they were separated at the solenoid I wouldn't think I could combine the two, but can I??? Or, any direction?

Thanks

[Raize]

Do not combine the two wires or the starter will run continuously with the ignition on and quite possibly melt some wiring.

You’ll just have to leave the one that’s not the solenoid wire disconnected and tape the end. It goes to the coil positive terminal.

[Lakeview]

@Raize

Ok, thanks.

So, it's not needed?

Just curious but what was its function?

[Raize]

[924RACR]

Exactly that; normally the coil runs on only 6V, stepped down by ballast resistors (on the early cars) or resistive wires... but when cranking, the full 12V is relayed back from the starter to the coil to get twice as hot a spark to make it easier to light up.
_________________
Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype

[Lakeview]

@924RACR
@Raize

Thanks guys but I still have a problem. Yesterday I wired up the starter. Working alone is tough. Both the small wires have the same color code. Without knowing how to determine which was which I chose the one that went to the top of the solenoid with the larger ring terminal. After struggling to get the starter mounted (had to customize a bolt to get in the housing mount) I got it mounted. I had a 50/50 shot at which was the correct wire. Not sure it's right.

Still have the original problem that started when I was checking the fuel system problem. At this point I'm not sure of the problem and need ya'll's direction.

When I turn the key to on all the lights and gauges react. When I move to start the gauges show draw and no starter. And I can sense a draw on the system.I hear relays clicking in the fuse block. This being a RHD car it was hard to tell which since the key and block are on opposite sides of car but I stretched across and determined two relays were clicking. The two on either side of the FP relay. Doesn't matter if the FP relay is in or out. Same results. They are P and R. R denotes that it's for air conditioning. This car doesn't have it. P is cooling fan.

I bought the factory manual and have the Haynes version but after buying the factory ones I realized they are the US version and only up to 82 since no US 83 models. This car is an 83 RHD Euro model so I don't know if I have correct information.

I have a lot of things unplugged but it was working checking fuel system so it seems a mystery as to why it just stopped.

My next thought was ignition switch but since I have a draw when going into start mode I would think the switch is making contact. I'm going back to search for a thread I saw about hot-wiring and see if maybe I can try that.

Sorry for making this so long and hijacking this different subject post. I just feel the more info I can supply can give me a closer idea of what to look for.

Thanks for all the help this has been a great asset.

[924RACR]

When switching to "Crank" position, the ONLY relay that should be triggered is the one on the starter itself. However, as some will be powered by the "X" circuit (in particular I should think the fans, headlights, window motors and such) they will shut off when you move the key to Crank, so you could readily hear those.

So if you're hearing the AC and rad fans turned off - that makes sense.

As for the wire color to connect to the starter - looks like it should be red/black wire to control the starter/relay, assuming you still have the original wiring.

Oh, another finding... looks like when they switched to the transitorized ignition system (81-onward in the US), they ditched the extra lead with resistor wires to the coil... so that ought to simplify the wiring layout for you...
_________________
Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype

[Lakeview]

@924RACR

Relay on the starter? Meaning internally in the starter?

Well, the two small wires are color coded the same. And, I think, not sure but I want to say maybe white with a red stripe. Or, something with a red stripe.

Not sure what the relay for a/c controls since this car is not equipped but probably doesn't matter at this point.

Could a resistor wire have gone bad or failed?

I have been searching boards and such all morning. Been on the 924 UK and Clarks garage.

On the Clarks garage site referring to starter troubleshooting one thing is connecting a jumper wire to the small terminal on the starter. When I revised my wiring to change from a ring to spade terminal for the high output starter I used the large terminal. I had a 50/50 shot since I had no idea which was which and as stated earlier one just went back to the coil. If I have them reversed it will be a real pain to remove the starter again to correct!

I did find the sequence to jump the ignition switch harness to hot wire. I'm trying this tomorrow when I get back to my shop.

[924RACR]