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New guy with some questions

 
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Pirublues  



Joined: 21 Apr 2020
Posts: 8
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:19 pm    Post subject: New guy with some questions Reply with quote

New guy here. Ive been lurking the past week or two.

I have a 1982 924 NA. It has a running MS system that I'm currently tuning.

Next, I'd like to tackle brakes and suspension. I've read a bunch of guides and threads on swapping over 944 5 lug parts e.t.c. it's confusing because I'm not super familiar with the 944 differences. Anyway, I know a fellow with a 1000sq ft storage unit full of 944 and 924 cars/parts. Enough to build a few cars from, he is willing to sell me whatever i need to swap over 5 lug brakes for a super cheap price. He also has a good amount of 87+ suspension parts especially sway bars.

My question is, can i mismatch suspension/brakes parts from different years?

When I get tired of this 2.0 NA....He also has an NA 944 engine or two, are those a direct swap into the 924? If not what is required?


Last edited by Pirublues on Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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MikeJinCO  



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 913
Location: Maysville, Colorado

PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you look in the Performance Upgrades section there is a sticky on Planning performance Modifications. There is a large section on brake upgrading there. The 944 motor does not fit easily as the motor mounting arrangement is very different. 924 motor mounts to chassis, 944 motor mounts to lower cross member and it attaches to chassis differently.
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Mike
Poco a Poco, #033 '78 Vintage racer, SCCA Dp-81
'77 924
cricketdesigns.com
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Pirublues  



Joined: 21 Apr 2020
Posts: 8
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you. I read that big post. Rather confusing, i guess I'll just trial and error.

So then a crossmember swap is required too.
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MikeJinCO  



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 913
Location: Maysville, Colorado

PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Basically the early(pre85.5) 944 brakes bolt on as they were an option on the later 924's. The master cylinder and plumbing is where it gets messy. I think some people have used the stock master cylinder but that is where it gets a bit confusing as the stock 924 has a diagonal dual breaking system and the 944 type system is a front-back dual system. Some time in there(1980?) the master cylinder changed also. Some others will have to chime in on that. When I did my track car it was easiest to just replumb the brake system which is not simple on a street car. If thinking about changing to a 944 MC can get a bit tricky. This conversion has been done many times.

From what I have read it is very difficult to change that lower cross member as it mounts differently.
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Poco a Poco, #033 '78 Vintage racer, SCCA Dp-81
'77 924
cricketdesigns.com
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!tom  



Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1902
Location: Victoria, BC Canada

PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have an early master cylinder that has the same sized bores for both chambers, there is no need to change the routing of the brake lines.

The volume of 1 front and 1 rear caliper on one circuit is the same as the volume of 1 front and 1 rear caliper on the other circuit, so the X routing works just fine, regardless of what brakes you use.

It's when using a master cylinder with two different diameter bores when there is concern, as the volume of the bores must correspond to the volume requirements of the calipers.

I swapped 5-lugs onto my car and kept my original early master cylinder and booster and the system works correctly as intended.

I believe the stepped master cylinder was required for the 944 due to a different bias requirement combined with changes to the front suspension geometry. The master cylinder doesn't contribute to the bias, but it's part of the system and is critical in managing the volume requirements of the calipers.
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Pirublues  



Joined: 21 Apr 2020
Posts: 8
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

!tom wrote:
If you have an early master cylinder that has the same sized bores for both chambers, there is no need to change the routing of the brake lines.

The volume of 1 front and 1 rear caliper on one circuit is the same as the volume of 1 front and 1 rear caliper on the other circuit, so the X routing works just fine, regardless of what brakes you use.

It's when using a master cylinder with two different diameter bores when there is concern, as the volume of the bores must correspond to the volume requirements of the calipers.

I swapped 5-lugs onto my car and kept my original early master cylinder and booster and the system works correctly as intended.

I believe the stepped master cylinder was required for the 944 due to a different bias requirement combined with changes to the front suspension geometry. The master cylinder doesn't contribute to the bias, but it's part of the system and is critical in managing the volume requirements of the calipers.


Thank you. That helps actually
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Pirublues  



Joined: 21 Apr 2020
Posts: 8
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My guy 4 944's. Ranging from 84 to 89. Two of them are turbo two aren't, I know the 89 is none turbo. He's letting me take whatever suspension, brakes, etc. that I want for a couple hundred bucks.

I'm thinking go for the turbo front and rear suspension, spindles, hub, A-arms, rear training arms, and brakes/e-brake. Is there anything else I should grab?
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MikeJinCO  



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 913
Location: Maysville, Colorado

PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The early 944 parts are much easier to work with, they basically all just bolt on and the change particularly in braking is amazing. Most people have stayed with that. In mid 1985 with the change to the aluminum lower control arms it started getting trickier, then later they changed the track width and it became more complicated, including half shaft axle swaps and probable body work to clear the different offset wheels. It all can be done, but it turns from fairly simple to quite complex.
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Poco a Poco, #033 '78 Vintage racer, SCCA Dp-81
'77 924
cricketdesigns.com
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safe  



Joined: 18 Mar 2017
Posts: 168
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do you want to do with the car?
The stock brakes, properly sorted, works pretty good for the performance the car has. Even for track duty.
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Pirublues  



Joined: 21 Apr 2020
Posts: 8
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

safe wrote:
What do you want to do with the car?
The stock brakes, properly sorted, works pretty good for the performance the car has. Even for track duty.


It'll be a track car primarily. Right now I want to sort a lot of things out then eventually swap it.
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