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S2 931 EFI Conversion DIY
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924RACR  



Joined: 29 Jul 2001
Posts: 8353
Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Going for ignition upgrade Reply with quote

924RACR wrote:
Will be ditching the stock coil, igniter, and distributor and replacing with the VW part 032 905 106B

This is a direct-fire coil pack, about $50 from ECS right now, and will power directly from the MS. I'll use the distributor replacement mount for the EDIS coil. This also has the advantage that it's not only cheap and easy to install, it also even uses the same plug wire connector as the stock wires, no need to replace those (have the nice Kingsborn wires).


So, slight setback on this; after getting the unit, I can see that in fact it doesn't use the same coil end connector as the stock wires (despite appearances). It looks to be the same type as the Ford EDIS coils and others - so will need new plug wires.

On the upside, for replacing the plug wires, that puts us in a very common range of VW fitments - Golf and Jetta 2.0L 99-01. Then it's just a question of what color you want, Amazon has 'em all cheap!

For example...
https://smile.amazon.com/Beetle-2-0L-L4-1998-2001-2011-2014-Replace/dp/B07H86KLYW

Have ordered up the exact one above, just under $20USD, will see if that helps.

But it's been difficult to find time to mess with the Turbo recently, lots of racing going on and it's a short season, very busy turning around the racecars after one weekend and getting ready for the next. I raced my racecar last weekend, and am back out again in two weeks from now; it's a very high maintenance racecar, lots of effort to turn around and prep for another weekend, let alone perform any repair or upgrades. The NA 924 also needs prep, it's back out again first weekend in Sept at Mid-Ohio, but at least it doesn't need quite as much attention, little more than an oil chance, brake bleed and alignment check.
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Vaughan Scott
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'79 924 #77 ITB racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
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Mike9311  



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 914
Location: Chicago-ish

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My hats off to you...

It seems crazy to race every weekend all the while while maintaining that race effort. Then there is your turbo and your job! Maybe I am jealous of your management skills
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1979 924 NA M650 Herausnehmbares Dach
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924RACR  



Joined: 29 Jul 2001
Posts: 8353
Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL - I don't have kids. Problem solved.

PS - we don't usually race back-to-back weekends, and that's with two different racecars, so that spreads the load...
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Vaughan Scott
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kondzi  



Joined: 02 Jul 2018
Posts: 134
Location: MZ/Poland/EU

PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Short on ignition. I've been using Ford EDIS for many years and many projects. In my 931 I have EDIS4 and Ford Fiesta MK7 Coil Pack (installed on a custom mount where factory distributor was) and Fiesta MK7 Spark Wires. Although it's possible to do direct coil fire without using the Ford EDIS Controller, I kept that. Mainly because I left CIS, and did not convert to EFI (even though I've built the Ignition Management on MegaSquirt MS2 - Standalone, capable of almost anything). Ford's EDIS is bulletproof and if something goes wrong, with just a sensor and a 36-1 trigger wheel it will go into "service mode" with fixed 10 deg BTDC. It's doing signal conditioning very nicely, so the exetrnal ignition control (MS2 for me) gets a nice square signal - no issues with signal noise at all. I'm breaking a bit to change AAV with IAV that can be PWM controlled by MS2, bought all the parts already, but just don't have time. This brings me much closer to the EFI altogether. The thing is I invested heavily into my CIS (new injectors, rebuilt distributor, WUR) and just don't want to put it on the shelf.
For the newer projects running EFI I'm switching from MegaSquirt to Ecumaster more and more - much more user friendly and lot's of things built in (2 knock sensors, WB controller...). Well it supposed to be short xD Happy to exchange my experience in that area if needed.
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Konrad
'89 951 US
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'84 911 Carrera 3.2 RoW (factory specs)
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2079
Location: MI

PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What all sorts of trigger wheel teeth configurations does MS like using?

Iím thinking about... I have the double v belt pully for AC with one unused pulley on it..
Thinking about drilling holes all around the unused pulley and making it into a trigger wheel.. But what would be the best amount of teeth and gaps?

I think I could put the pulley on a ratchet or even a saw blade with the correct amount of teeth to then use as a jig/cogwheel to evenly space my holes out with on my drill press..

I could also set up a surface grinder type setup with my angle grinder in the XY vice and the pulley on the chuck with the cogwheel for spacing, and cut slots around the outside of the pulley by lowering the chuck into the grinder instead of drilling holes..

And it would be a fun job.. Good excuse to run some machines
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kondzi  



Joined: 02 Jul 2018
Posts: 134
Location: MZ/Poland/EU

PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think for pulley-ish trigger wheels most common are 36-1. That's mainly because of a small diameter of the pulley (hard to fit so much teeth and have reliable reading). Flywheel rings can have more. 964 has 60-2. Earlier Carrera 3.2 had, if I remember correctly, 129-2 (maybe) on flywheel ring. I like the idea of drilling holes in the pulley to make it trigger wheel. Usually laser/water jet mine.
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Konrad
'89 951 US
'88 Mustang 5.0 LX Convertible (factory specs)
'84 911 Carrera 3.2 RoW (factory specs)
'81 931 RoW (TBD)
'81 Ford Capri 2.8i (factory specs)
'79 Ford Capri 2.9 (heavily modded)
'74 Ford Capri 1.3 (factory specs)
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924RACR  



Joined: 29 Jul 2001
Posts: 8353
Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA

PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed, am running mine with 36-1, which was the trigger wheel Beckett had made up.

I too like the idea of trying machining the existing pulley, excellent idea!
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Vaughan Scott
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2079
Location: MI

PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool, maybe ill do that..

36 teeth with one missing as if their was a total of 36 before removing one?

Would it matter if it was like 25, 30, 32, 38?
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924RACR  



Joined: 29 Jul 2001
Posts: 8353
Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA

PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly - one every 10 degrees except skip one.
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Vaughan Scott
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'82 931 Plat. Silver
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kondzi  



Joined: 02 Jul 2018
Posts: 134
Location: MZ/Poland/EU

PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Read somewhere, that it might be smart to use 36-2 trigger wheel, as when cranking the rev speed may vary, and the ECU may pick up false signal.
Thatís more like an anecdote, not a guideline honestly. Has been using 36-1 for years, most of older Ford cars use that trigger wheel pattern as well.
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Konrad
'89 951 US
'88 Mustang 5.0 LX Convertible (factory specs)
'84 911 Carrera 3.2 RoW (factory specs)
'81 931 RoW (TBD)
'81 Ford Capri 2.8i (factory specs)
'79 Ford Capri 2.9 (heavily modded)
'74 Ford Capri 1.3 (factory specs)
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924RACR  



Joined: 29 Jul 2001
Posts: 8353
Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA

PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Huh... well my observation of the cranking speed is that's it's slow enough to not really matter... LOL

Still seems to normally fire within 2-3s.
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Vaughan Scott
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
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Location: MI

PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Should the spaces and teeth be about the same width? Like 1/4Ē spaces and 1/4Ē teeth?
Just make them even, whatever itíll fit for size?

And what kind of sensor exactly?
Just any old crank/cam sensor that picks up teeth?
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Fifty50Plus  



Joined: 28 Feb 2008
Posts: 1113
Location: Washington DC area

PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did this on my Benz race car some years ago. I had a machinist drill and tap the harmonic balancer every 10 degrees for an M6 bolt. He put in stainless bolts and my magnetic pickup couldn't "read" them. Once we figured out the problem we replaced them with steel bolts and problem solved.
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kondzi  



Joined: 02 Jul 2018
Posts: 134
Location: MZ/Poland/EU

PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fasteddie313 wrote:
Should the spaces and teeth be about the same width? Like 1/4Ē spaces and 1/4Ē teeth?
Just make them even, whatever itíll fit for size?

And what kind of sensor exactly?
Just any old crank/cam sensor that picks up teeth?


You need VR sensor, this generates sin signal. Just make the holes even (every 10 deg) - don't have to be exactly same; see how much room you have for the hole and steel and remember that one hole spans across two (missing teeth). The ECU picks up the moment when the signal changes from positive to negative, or the other way round. In general your teeth here will be the )( between holes.
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Konrad
'89 951 US
'88 Mustang 5.0 LX Convertible (factory specs)
'84 911 Carrera 3.2 RoW (factory specs)
'81 931 RoW (TBD)
'81 Ford Capri 2.8i (factory specs)
'79 Ford Capri 2.9 (heavily modded)
'74 Ford Capri 1.3 (factory specs)
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924RACR  



Joined: 29 Jul 2001
Posts: 8353
Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:05 pm    Post subject: Modern fully electronic ignition Reply with quote

Finally got some time yesterday to spend on the Turbo, taking a short break from all these needy racecars. Installed the new Bosch 4-tower coil, part # 032 905 106F from 2011-2014 VW Golf/Jetta, along with an inexpensive set of pretty blue plug wires from Amazon.

Objective with this was to finally completely cure my misfire and inexpensively convert from running the stock distributor, coil, and ignition amplifier to modern direct-coil design.

Fitment of the wires on the plugs coulda been better; no doubt a higher-quality sourced part would address that. But they work - whaddya want for $20!

Coil was super-easy to wire in, just spliced in the pre-loaded pigtail bought from Amazon (part # 1J0 973 724, $13 on Amazon with pigtail). The two ignition leads from the Microsquirt, power and ground. Mounted it in place of the distributor, on one of Dan Beckett's pretty distributor delete mounts - designed for the Ford EDIS module, but I made a new top plate to fit the VW coil and offset towards the cam cover to improve clearance to the firewall.

Flashed in the new engine cal (just had to switch coil type to Wasted Spark) and fired right up.

Haven't driven much yet, but already the spark trace looks much cleaner, without the jagged spikes from the old coil. Much happier.

Car is really starting to be nice - gonna have to start driving it soon, the excuses are going away! Also replaced a flaky voltage regulator, which I was seeing in my logs wasn't always charging the battery. No wonder I was fighting starting issues...
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'82 931 Plat. Silver
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