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Mikko
Joined: 02 Jun 2017 Posts: 26 Location: Finland, Helsinki area
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Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:52 pm Post subject: GTR/GTP drysump pump - search |
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Hi,
I´ve been trying to find the correct part to add an original 924GTR/GTP drysump oil pump system to my engine, but haven´t yet had much luck with this. I know that almost every part connected to these cars a N/A, but during my searches I have found a few clues. If someone knows better or has additional pictures regarding the pump assembly I would be glad to have those
So far it seems that the original pump is propably built from two different oil pumps sourced from Porsche/VAG parts bin. The pump itself seems to have two sections a scavenge pump and a pressure pump. The scavenge section looks to be based on Porsche 928 oil pump (flange and driving shaft look the same), but it is then inserted to a casting which houses a second pump. This pump must be the pressure pump, but so far I have not found where its from.. The 930 scavenge pump looks a bit similar as the pressure pump in this system, but there are differencies. also the 911 sportomatic external oil pump seems to be a dead end.
I am able to make aluminium castings, but the problem is that second pump.. Maybe, if someone has a photo showing the back of the pump that could solve this problem?
Thanks in advance,
Mikko
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1m2HCp2mq2RWKxaMzzI0wGDjdUw3Pl4h21g
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1CY9LWIo-ZRJ1NMLoFQMsnieUup2wa_vojg
928 pump (don´t mind the green highlight, picture is sourced from web)
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1m-QQK_mp5_JAuYu-KwuJVbpX9Cyd2Blo-g |
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Paulyy
Joined: 05 May 2014 Posts: 87 Location: Melbourne
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Mikko
Joined: 02 Jun 2017 Posts: 26 Location: Finland, Helsinki area
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Paulyy,
I propably need to get an aftermarket solution and most likely these new ones are also far better in performance.
But, if the pump would be somewhat easy to build I would like it better. My car is quite modified as is and it would be nice to have a feeling that the parts on it are also not something just bought off the shelf.
Br,
Mikko |
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Paulyy
Joined: 05 May 2014 Posts: 87 Location: Melbourne
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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There's no real problem with getting an aftermarket oil pump. A lot of race cars use them with out issues. _________________ 924 - Race car project in the works.
http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?p=384410#384410
951 - 400whp. |
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Cedric
Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 2605 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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Have you talked to Mattias Aronsson who built a GTS FIA replica, he also sells reproduction of parts. If you want i can send you his contact info _________________ 1980 924 Turbo
www.instagram.com/garagecedric/ |
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Mikko
Joined: 02 Jun 2017 Posts: 26 Location: Finland, Helsinki area
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Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Cèdric, no I haven't. Please, if you have his contacts I would like to have it. Was he the guy who did the Gtr rallycar replica?
Br, Mikko |
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Cedric
Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 2605 Location: Sweden
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Shurick
Joined: 15 May 2005 Posts: 524 Location: Russia, Moscow.
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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It looks like external oil pump was used only to scavenge oil.
_________________ WBR, Shurick
'79 931 -- intercooled K26-3060-6.10 turbo @ 1.2 bar, EFI+EDIS, 951S brakes, stripped interior, 951 look.
'86 924S -- R.I.P.
https://www.instagram.com/ru_pacecar/ |
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Mikko
Joined: 02 Jun 2017 Posts: 26 Location: Finland, Helsinki area
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Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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Hi,
As my project is starting to go overboard I had to source a copy of a GTR usermanual/spare parts catalogue.
The pump in question does actually seem to have 928 internals, but only the outer 92810720504 and inner 92810720404 rotors.
The book also explains how the system is set up and you are right Shurick. However, here is the explanation for all of them:
1. Scavenge suction inlet from oil pan
2. Pressure outlet line to oil cooler
3. Suction inlet oil line from turbocharger
4. Pressure oil line to kugelfischer MFI pump
The original oil pump is modified so that the suction side from oil pan is blocked, but it uses the standard gear 924 wheels. There are threads and a AN type connector threaded to the casting that allows oil to be pumped from the oil tank positioned in the spare wheel well. The oil pressure regulator is modified with bespoken parts. Manual says the system is run at 7,5-8,0bar@5000rpm. Standard 924 runs at 4,0bar@5000rpm so this must the difference. The spring and plunger are same as 924, but the valve housing is different as well as its seal ring which is 21x26mm. The seal standard seal ring is 20,5mm which might suggest change in valve housing diameter.
Br, Mikko |
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Daniel12
Joined: 19 Apr 2018 Posts: 10 Location: South Carolina
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 7:55 am Post subject: |
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I know little about the mechanicals of the 924 GTR/GTP but here is a picture I ran across on Porsche UK's site of the renovation of a 924GTP. The dry sump pump they are using here appears to be of the normal, commercially available modular type used in racing. It looks pretty much the same as the TDC pump on my FC.
Here is the link to the restoration article. They mention something in the video about the original oil pump and water pump being impossible to source.
https://www.porsche.com/uk/accessoriesandservice/classic/924-gtp-restoration/ _________________ 1979 924 Alpine White (in pieces) owned since '82
1987 924S Red ITS #12
1995 993 Polar Silver |
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michel
Joined: 25 Feb 2018 Posts: 14 Location: Australia
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Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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Cédric wrote: | Have you talked to Mattias Aronsson who built a GTS FIA replica, he also sells reproduction of parts. If you want i can send you his contact info |
Hi could I have his contact also.
Thx _________________ 931 stock, 1 of 130. Frankencis conversion in progress
Carrera GT wannabe , currently seeking parts
944 Turbo
924 turbo (for sale)
924 martini (for sale)
75 911 narrow body IROC project
914/6 GT project |
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Scott Sanda
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 68
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Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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This is late to the discussion, but for what it is worth, all the D prod cars I have ever seen, including mine, use a standard Weaver style external oil pump, like is shown in the picture.
They are robust, easy to rebuild, and inexpensive. Personally, unless you are trying to achieve something very unique, go with one of these.
It will save you a lot of headache, heartache, and cost. Plus, keep in mind that builders of race cars saw them as tools, not as the almost sacred shrines we treat them as. So they used whatever was at hand, that fit the purpose, for the least cost.
If you want a specific example, My D prod car was built up by Tom Brennen. It was built from the start to run in SCCA GT3, and won a National Championship in 85.
It, and all of Tom's builds, including his championship DP cars, do not have factory serial numbers. Porsche stamped them onto the shock tower top.
Tom cut them off, and welded in a plate as a top mount, with a camber adjustable top, and threw the stamped parts with the serial numbers away.
I was talking to him a couple of months ago, and we were both crying in our beer a bit, since there is no picture or record on my SN, or of the SN of the D prod car Tom has sitting in his garage.
In his own words " they were race cars. We cut things off and changed things to make them faster all the time. No one thought about preserving them for future value. If I had known then what I know now, I would have welded the damn thing to the inside of the tub somewhere".
Scott |
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TJC
Joined: 04 Apr 2010 Posts: 828 Location: Central-ish Arizona, USA
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Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 12:46 am Post subject: |
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^^^What Scott said pretty well sums it up and has been my experience as well. _________________ '95 BMW 318i/5 ..."Pearl"
'87 Porsche 944 NA... "Liebchen"
'02 Porsche Boxster..."Sunbeam"
'04 BMW X3..."Xander"
Still on the Prowl!
www.ttrs1.com |
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Mikko
Joined: 02 Jun 2017 Posts: 26 Location: Finland, Helsinki area
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Posted: Sun May 19, 2019 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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Hi All,
Thanks for the answers and suggestions so far. Idea is to get the car as close to stock, but it might be so that I need to proceed with an aftermarket part from the same period. Thanks Scott for your insights.
However, during my search quest so far, I now know one seller that has the original pump. Let's see where it leads to.
Endless websurfing and years doing so often eventually pays off
Br,
Mikko |
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Carrera RSR
Joined: 08 Jan 2010 Posts: 2309 Location: Somerset, UK
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Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 12:32 am Post subject: |
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Have you tried Freisinger Motorsport? _________________ 1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, K27/26 3257 6.10 hybrid turbo, 951 FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife
Now www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=34690
Then www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=31252 |
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