924Board.org

Svobodin · Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 67 Location: Colorado

I lined up the flywheel and crankshaft to TDC. I rewired the firing order (1,3,4,2) of the spark plugs, PO had it all wrong! I took off the distributor cap and find that my timing is advanced. This explains why the car won't start! I cannot for the life of me figure out how to loosen the rotor to realign it. I have the clymers manual, but it is very ambiguous. Any help is appreciated.

An additional question, Clymers says the rotor should point to a mark on the distributor housing when the engine is at TDC. I read that the rotor should point to the no. 1 ignition coil, but the mark is pointed to what is now the No. 3 ignition coil. Am I right in aligning the rotor to the mark on the distributor housing, or should it be aligned otherwise?

nickthompson · Joined: 26 Mar 2013 Posts: 873 Location: Central Georgia

Send it to an Atlanta public school. Four years later it will be plenty retarded.

Svobodin · Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 67 Location: Colorado

you misunderstand me, I don't want it to be really retarded, just slightly.

I figured out how to move the rotors position, I was able to remove the whole bottom of the distributor and realign it, I don't think I should have done that because I ended up having to rotate the entire housing 90* counter clockwise. I'm just going to wait until I get some feedback before screwing around any more.

btw, still not starting.

ideola · Joined: 01 Oct 2004 Posts: 15550 Location: Spring Lake MI

fiat22turbo · Joined: 18 Jan 2006 Posts: 4040 Location: Portland, OR

Remove the nut under and behind the distributor to remove the clamping bracket so you can remove the distributor.

You'll then have to move the rotor near where it should be and then place the distributor back in. The rotor will turn slightly as the gears mesh, so you may need to do this a few times to get it close to the correct spot.

Once this is set correctly, you'll need to reinstall the bracket and nut and only snug it up as you'll have to adjust the timing by hand in order to get the engine to start and then you can adjust the timing to the correct setting following the directions in your manual.

Hope this helps.
_________________
Stefan
1979 924 Carrera GTS (clone-ish)
1988 944 Turbo S (Silver Rose)

Svobodin · Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 67 Location: Colorado

thanks Ideola, I was referring to that post when I realized the PO had the firing sequence all wrong.

One last question, where should the mark on the distributor housing, and consequently the rotor be pointing?

fiat22turbo · Joined: 18 Jan 2006 Posts: 4040 Location: Portland, OR

When the engine is at TDC, the rotor should point to cylinder one in the cap.
_________________
Stefan
1979 924 Carrera GTS (clone-ish)
1988 944 Turbo S (Silver Rose)

ideola · Joined: 01 Oct 2004 Posts: 15550 Location: Spring Lake MI

The small scribe mark on the lip of the distributor works best when it is pointing toward the driver side shock tower / headlight area. This orientation provides enough room that the distributor can be rotated enough without the vacuum housing binding on the cam cover (which it will if the housing is not in this orientation). It also makes it much easier to install the electrical connection without stressing the harness.

The distributor rotor will rotate counter clockwise when you install the distributor due to the helical drive gear. Consequently, as Stefan alluded to, make sure you put the rotor slightly past (about 1/8 of a turn in the clockwise direction) the scribe mark. Then when you install it, the rotor will rotate back and should be pointing roughly to the scribe mark. Then you can fine tune the indexation of the distributor until you have it lined up perfectly. Finally, reinstall the ignition distributor cap. The #1 plug terminal will be the one oriented near where the rotor is pointing. If you follow these directions, it will all line up with the diagrams and discussion from the other thread I pointed you to.
_________________
erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made

Svobodin · Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 67 Location: Colorado

Thanks guys, I lined it all up, but still not starting. I think its the starter, probably original. Anyone have a spare I can buy?

vatoisimo · Joined: 31 Aug 2008 Posts: 134 Location: Kent, Wa

I had mine rebuilt at an alternator rebuild shop.

fiat22turbo · Joined: 18 Jan 2006 Posts: 4040 Location: Portland, OR

When you say it isn't starting, is it not cranking?

Have you checked the wiring to the starter? It is a common failure point on the 924 NA because it sits so close to the exhaust.

I would pull it and test it on the bench before buying a new one.

The positive battery lead can be replaced with a proper length universal version from the local parts store. Might as well replace the line that runs from the starter to the alternator while you are in there, along with the ground strap for the alternator.

When pulling/working on the wiring, starter and/or alternator, it helps to pull the oil filter.

BTW, you can use an Audi 4000/5000 starter to get a slightly smaller version that works as well or better than the stock unit: http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=13693

More specifically, this thread provides better cross reference information:

http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=12890

Good luck!
_________________
Stefan
1979 924 Carrera GTS (clone-ish)
1988 944 Turbo S (Silver Rose)

Svobodin · Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 67 Location: Colorado

Oh it so desperately wants to start, its cranking, the fuel is being delivered, the engine is turning over, it is just not starting. I was having starter issues before I had to redo the head gasket, I just guess it is about time. I will pull it off and test it, But more likely than not, it just isn't worth fixing, and I would rather get a replacement if that means the car will start right up.

Thanks for the tip on the audi starter, I will look into that right now. I will also probably redo the wires since I don't want to have to do it later.

on second thought, I might check to see if its just the solenoid. Its cranking reeally slow. I'll see if I can get a video of sorts.

fiat22turbo · Joined: 18 Jan 2006 Posts: 4040 Location: Portland, OR

Slow cranking is likely a weak battery and/or bad battery connections.

Clean the battery connections and make sure the negative connection on the battery tray is in good shape and the large ground from the engine to the firewall near the coil is in good shape. I added another negative cable from the battery to the engine above the starter to help alleviate ground issues.

You do realize that after moving the distributor that you'll need to manually rotate the distributor a little while it is cranking to get it close to the proper timing to get it to start, right? Try it by snugging the clamp nut slightly so that won't move without a little resistance and slowly rotate it to the right until it starts.

Once it is warmed up, you'll want to adjust the timing to the correct setting using the manual, but the first step is getting it running and that requires some trial and error with the distributor timing.
_________________
Stefan
1979 924 Carrera GTS (clone-ish)
1988 944 Turbo S (Silver Rose)

ideola · Joined: 01 Oct 2004 Posts: 15550 Location: Spring Lake MI

+1 to the comments on the starter and battery and connections.

Have you checked spark at the main coil wire and all four of the plugs? I would do this very soon just to verify that you have fuel AND spark. I would also strongly suggest that you clean the plugs and check gap. It is very easy for them to get fouled, and the only reliable way of unfouling them is to remove all four, spray them with carb or brake cleaner, brush them with a wire brush, and then use a torch style lighter to burn off any excess gasoline.

Also, be aware that with your repeated failed attempts to start the car that you are flooding fuel down into the cylinders, and have probably contaminated the oil. I wouldn't worry about it until you get the car started, but once you do, you should immediately change the oil. Otherwise, you will have oil pressure problems and will risk wiping out your main or rod bearings.

Once you've unfouled the plugs, verified spark, and solved the slow cranking problem, it wouldn't hurt to give it a little squirt of starting fluid right in the throttle body. In my experience, cars that haven't run in a while can be really stubborn to get going, and the starting fluid can remind them of what they're supposed to do.

_________________
erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made

Svobodin · Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 67 Location: Colorado

thanks for the suggestions guys. I just got a new battery a week ago so it should be good. Could be a bit weak from all the failed starting attempts, but I will plug it in to the battery charger in a few.. I will look into the connections, but they were alright on the battery side. I checked for spark to the distributor and from all the coils yesterday while playing around with the distributor. All checked out.

I also swapped out the spark plugs yesterday, as the ones on there, despite being Bosch were from the PO and I had no idea how old they were.

I was already planning on changing the oil once I got the car started, I just did the head gasket, so it was required.

I will try to fiddle with the dizzy to get her running, and I'll give that starting fluid a go too. I do think the starter needs to be rebuilt/replaced tho because she was having starting problems before I took the engine apart for the HG job.

My buddy is supposed to come by in a bit to help me out, and he wants to reinstall the crankshaft, altho I don't believe there is any issue with it. thoughts?