924Board.org

[larso]

In fact, I think we have found the perfect application for stock 924s. Autocrossing.

Autocrossing does not require high top speeds, does not require acceleration as much as track, it requires a car that can do shicanes, a light car is always good for autocross, and one that holds to the road is much better than a car that has too much power at the wheels.

I agree that it is always a driver that is a factor, obviously you haven't read my other posts on the board, where I have indicated many times that the driver is very important.
Although, if you have read my other posts, than I would say you are the one that is instigating annoyance, since I have already stated many times that the driver has to fit his car.

[ This Message was edited by: larso on 2001-08-04 04:27 ]

[MAS]

I agree Larso... 924's (and 924S's) are excellent for autocrossing. In fact, doesn't one of the current champ autocrossers drive an 88 924S?

-MAS

[larso]

does he???

That would be some good advertising for 924s!

[-nick]

ok Lars-
sorry for getting on your case. but saying that a/x isn't racing hurts !

btw- MAS, the top a/x'ers are usually 914/6's. i don't know of any 924S or 944 drivers that fare so well. those cars aren't particularly 'light' either. as Lars said, advantage on the a/x course comes from low weight, also a short wheelbase, and a low center of gravity.

of course a little power doesn't hurt either, the 968TRS that runs with us always gets fastest time of the day.

and hey, those vtecs pump out 190 horses. they actually do surprisingly well out there. but you're right, they do have more power than cornering ability. it would probably be a tough call on the track.

regards
-nick

[numbers]

Hey guys, you can never have enough horsepower.

[larso]

Well autox must be racing because you have a clock, and a course to go around, that's what racing is after all isn't it, so that was my bad.

I think the problem with the 924 trying to get it sub 6.9 seconds is the tranny position in relation to the engine.
There is enough power in the 931s and the super modded 924s to get low 6 accel times, but, the shifting just isn't made for fast shifting!!
Those chevy v-8 engines in the 924 have enough power so that they can afford to lose the accel times. The 951s too, they have enough power to cancel out that extra time it takes to shift.
WIth a 200 HP 924 or 931, or 924S or 944, the shifting is what is stopping it from being low 6s is my best guess.
The tranny is in the back, and it is slow to shift, and you can't change that.
My guess is that in a 911, you have a heavy clutch and a heavy stick shift, just like the 924/944, but the tranny is faster since its coupled to the engine. I know for sure the cars with the tranny in the front coupled to the engine in the front are much faster shifters.

[-nick]

Lars-
have you tried a 4-spd? or any 924/944 tranny with a good synth in it? i can slam gears in my 4spd much quicker than any other cars i've driven, including fancy ones (some 911's can be a bear to shift)

i assume you have experience with the snailshells, which i'm sure take a little more time to shift because of the extra linkage. the 4spds use a pretty direct path from shifter to the transaxle. not so sure about the audi 5spd's, but i've slammed shifts in those pretty quick.

and oil really helps. my 4 feels very different after using redline synth.

regards,
-nick

[larso]

Well are the 4 speed audi ones faster than the 5 speed audi ones???

Aren't the 5 speed ones the same as the 4 speeds with a gear tacked on the end?

What i like about the snail shell ones is that the handling is better, the tranny removal procedure is easier (u don't hit the spare wheel thing) and it is less weight....

[ This Message was edited by: larso on 2001-08-04 10:00 ]

[924Kid]

Ok, not for anything. But I was on the highway in 5th gear doing a very steady 65 mph. I passed an angry current generation camaro. He would try to pass me, and did once, but I simply blew by him again, and every time he tried to pass. I just went faster and he never caught me! He was sooooo pist off! My car is N/A, has 4 less cylinders and is almost 23 years old. I beat him more quietly and with a better looking car. I think these cars are slow, but when on the highway, they have more than enough pep to go from say 50-70...those kinds of high speed gains. I dont think Ive ever felt so proud to own my car.

[924 turbo]

[924Kid]

No, this was definitely a V8. I would never try to suggest a 924 could outrun a camaro from 0-60. But once at speed, he definitely had trouble keeping up with me. This was confirmed with his road rage,lol!

[Vince]

Most of you know that I own a 77.5 924 track car and a 79 931 Euro. My 77 handles much better than the 931 with the exact same mods. The 931 seems to want to come around while the 924 is rock solid.
specs
77 23mm front with 22mm Welts in back, Bilsteins HD all around. Lowered with 250 springs front and back
79 23mm front, 18 mm rear off a 951, Bilsteins HD, lowered with 250 springs all around.
The 924 has instant response off the line with the 5 speed while the first gear in the 931 is slow but spools up nicely. It then is up to what gear you are in when trying to race someone. I shoot for 3 on the hwy. and punch it. Both go great. I take great care not to blow the trannies and never jump of the line. Second gear and poof. 931 snailtails are expensive to fix.

Vince

[larso]

is the 931 not handling as well because you can't control the power as nicely?
Or is it actually the weight of the engine in the front and the car?

[John H]

If you guys have trouble with the 1st to 2nd shift in the 931 then maybe you should practice a bit more. I have been racing my 937 (GT) for about 14 years and in the first year I had problems getting either reverse or 4th. Now I can blow away 911's and 944 turbo's off the line.The shift 1st to 2nd is real slick you just drop the clutch (I run a 911 clutch and pressure palte assembly)in first and then once moving and pulling about 6000 push lever forward and it's in 2nd. Where you stuff up is when you try to do a fast change andpush the lever over to get second, if you just move the lever forward it naturally goes straight to 2nd. I've found the shift is as fast as any of the Japo cars I've driven. On the new race car I've made a gate like a Ferrari with an interlock so you can't get reverse and hence you get real quick changes.

[924RACR]

I suspect fully that the reason for the handling difference between Vince's cars is the 20lbs lighter snailshell in the turbo. Yes, these cars are that finely balanced. I've seen a noticeable difference running just 5 gal less gas in my racecar.

_________________
Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype