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Straight six engine in a 924
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Horizonblue  



Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 303
Location: Sorring city, Denmark, Europe

PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:34 am    Post subject: Straight six engine in a 924 Reply with quote

I have sometimes thought about a straight six engine in a 924. And it should off course be an engine within the (VW) family. And which engine might that be, I hear you ask...

This one(carb version):


It comes from the old VW LT van, that was quite common here in Europe. Well, it was the straight six Diesel version that was the most popular, but there was also this gasoline version.

And as most of you know, our original 924 engine actually came from the LT van. The straight six gasoline engine replaced the "924" engine in the LT van, in the beginning of the 80's

Here is the fuel injected version(MPI):


The engine has the VW/Audi 016 bolt pattern, so it is more or less bolt on and go, on the flywheel housing.

Data:

2,4 litre displacement
90 hp (carb version)
94 hp (MPI version)

Yes, it is not a rocket engine, but it shouldn't be impossible to gain a little more power.

As far as I see, these are the major tasks to overcome, before the engine is in the 924 bay.

-Custom made intake manifold (if the original EFI manifold collides with the right wheel well)

-Modified oil pan

-Front sway bar?

-Modified radiator shroud

-Engine mounts

And then comes a power upgrade (cam re-grind, maybe turbo and/or pistons, programmable EFI) and wiring/cooling lines.


Any thoughts?
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Euro 924, 1976

"If you can't fix it, don't break it"

/P.G. Andersen


Last edited by Horizonblue on Fri Jan 01, 2016 9:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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fiat22turbo  



Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 4040
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting project.

I'd stick to something with a cross-flow head, like an Audi 20-valve 5-cylinder (a 10-valve block with a 20-valve head is a fun option when boosted)

Too bad there isn't another 4-cylinder with that bolt pattern. :/

Look forward to seeing the progress!
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Stefan
1979 924 Carrera GTS (clone-ish)
1988 944 Turbo S (Silver Rose)
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daniel  



Joined: 18 Jun 2009
Posts: 606
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no replacement for displacement. Go for it, as you point out throw the restrictive VW stuff away (like cam and the injection) and im sure she will sing.
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Over the top of skyline, total brake failure.... hit the wall at over 200 kp/h at the dipper, so anyone who has to brake for the esses is a pussy.
1977.5 Race Car, CAMS Group S Spec
1989 944 Cabriolet
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15462
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's the compression on those pistons??? A CR increase should yield more power.
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15 981 GTS | 88 924S SE | 82 931 Holbert | 82 931 Rallye | 81 937 | 81 Euro 931 | 81 Weissach | 80 US 928 | 80 US 931 '941' | 80 US 931 | 80 931 GTR | 79 Sebring | 78 D-Prod Replica | 78 w/D-Prod kit | 78 Poli-Form | 78 Limited Edition | 77 Martini
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Rasta Monsta  



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11332
Location: PacNW

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phuck that dude, go for a V12
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Toofah King Bad
  • Shaggy (1980 931) - Got Boost?
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 7674
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

too bad its not crossflow...but even so, upp the CR to 10 or even 11. Run MS, a propper cam and it should be fairly close to the 944 performance.
that being said..why not buy a 944 ?
you'll also need to upp the clutch too..
but i agree that the straight six would sound much better..
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Cédric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1588
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well...very strange engine swap. Tune the shit out of it just to come up to stock power+ worse weight distribution But it could probably sound fun at least
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http://www.garaget.org/show.php?car=211
´80 924 Turbo
http://www.garaget.org/?car=160275
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Horizonblue  



Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 303
Location: Sorring city, Denmark, Europe

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

morghen wrote:
that being said..why not buy a 944 ?


Why?
Because that's too easy

Yes, a crossflow head would be better. As earlier mentioned, an Audi 5 cyl with crossflow would probably be a better choice, but I have a thing for this 6 cylinder engine.

I don't know what the CR is on this engine, but probably something that would be fine for a turbocharger...
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Euro 924, 1976

"If you can't fix it, don't break it"

/P.G. Andersen
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jim kleyh  



Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 55
Location: pine falls, manitoba, canada

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, sounds like something that is going to take a lot of prep work. I'm all for bigger is better as long as you can get the CR up. I've ben doing 6cyl 261 cu in my pontiacs. They torque away better than a v8 and surprises the crap out of the guy iin the next lane the way it comes off the line. I'm going to put a 3-71 gm blower on it this winter. I want to see what that does for top end. After that it's a dual 3-71 set u I've had kicking around to put on my BBC. Anyhow, back to your project. Put a set of split exhaust manifolds and listen to that motor sing. Splitting the exhaust gives off a sound like no other and people will have you opening your hood to prove what that beast really is. Good luck, I'll be watching this with great interest. JIM
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oldcarman-77 porsche 924 and one of the ugliest motorhomes on earth.
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Horizonblue  



Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 303
Location: Sorring city, Denmark, Europe

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, guys, I went ahead and purchased this engine. (the one from the first picture, which was from the classified ad)

Next step is to start it up for a short test run, and after that, lower the whole thing into the engine bay, to see how that looks.





According to the seller (don't trust a seller, I know) it should only have 11000 km (6875 miles) on it. Apart from a bit rust, it looks to be in great condition. Distributor cap and rotor looks new, inside.

Can't wait to hear this thing purr.
_________________
Euro 924, 1976

"If you can't fix it, don't break it"

/P.G. Andersen


Last edited by Horizonblue on Fri Jan 01, 2016 6:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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the_mad_electrician  



Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1073
Location: Central Georgia

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good luck! I'm thinking I will copy steve924 and attempt a 1.8t swap. I think I'll be using a 944 instead because the 1.8t pilot barring accepts the 944 torque tube. Added bonus it will have 4 wheel disk already.
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2004 Ranger "Edge"

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Horizonblue  



Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 303
Location: Sorring city, Denmark, Europe

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have had the engine started several times now, sounds great. The wires for the coil, starter and oil lamp are hooked up all the time, so I can start it up, just for fun, when I'm in the workshop

The first thing I will find/fabricate is an exhaust downpipe. I connected a 924 downpipe to the rear header, and a long tube to the front header. This setup is very noisy, since it leaks a lot. It would be nice to reduce this exhaust noise, during all these test runs.....
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Euro 924, 1976

"If you can't fix it, don't break it"

/P.G. Andersen
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the_mad_electrician  



Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1073
Location: Central Georgia

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let us know how it goes. We are all interested in the way it turns out. By we I mean me. LoL
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81 924 N/A

2004 Ranger "Edge"

2005 Mazda 6
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Horizonblue  



Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 303
Location: Sorring city, Denmark, Europe

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Today I lowered the straight six engine into the car.

Here it is, bolted onto the bell housing.


There is not enough room for the original carb. I had hoped that, so I could do a test run. Maybe another carb could do the trick.



The hood is not on the car, but from what I can see, it can be closed without problems.



The whole thing looks quite ok, untill you look underneath the car.

As any engine swapper has experienced, the cross member is in the way. Quite a lot actually. I need at least 1.5 inch before it can be boltet on.

The oil pan can of course be modified, but I have my doubt whether that's enough. The flange on the engine block, where the oil pan is bolted onto, is a lot lower than on the original engine.

So my question is, how much more space would there be, if I had a 924S/944 ?
_________________
Euro 924, 1976

"If you can't fix it, don't break it"

/P.G. Andersen


Last edited by Horizonblue on Mon Jan 11, 2016 7:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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Horizonblue  



Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 303
Location: Sorring city, Denmark, Europe

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, judging from other projects, it seems that there's still clearance problems, in a 924s/944.

Here is how it looks right now.


The tap that points out from the block, is not directly above the steering rack mounting points. It is a bit forward.



This is the diesel version of the engine, bottoms up, without oilpan. As it can be seen, the crank doesn't protrude much from the block. This makes it possible to heavily modify the pan. Enough I hope, so it clears the steering rack/cross member. The pickup tube will have to be modified also.


Above the engine, it looks liks this.



The clearance here, with a flat piece of wood, is 1/4 inch. The hood is fortuneatly convex, approx 3/4 inch higher in the middle, this gives a bit space for raising the engine.

I had hoped that the original carb could be used, for a testrun, but there is not enough space for it. So one solution could be to find another carb that could be used.

Any suggestions ?

Here is the room for it.

_________________
Euro 924, 1976

"If you can't fix it, don't break it"

/P.G. Andersen


Last edited by Horizonblue on Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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