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New 924 turbo Euro spec bought - big plans ahead!!
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Euro924S2  



Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 183
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just thought I would update this thread now I finally have some dyno results.

So to summerise current setup:
1)100K mile completely stock Euro 931 series 2 block and head (CR8.5).
2) Eaton MP62 supercharger
3) 15 psi boost at 2.47:1 drive ratio (custom billet 140mm 6 rib crank pulley with fan belt over-drive)
4) 565cc Denso top feed injectors
5) Modified NA exhaust manifold to fit 931 head - otherwise stock 924 NA exhaust.
6) 951 FMIC (mounted low in 951 style front bumper)
7) Honda Civic Type R all aluminium racing radiator (55mm thick)
8 ) 944 header tank
9) Adaptronic 420C fully programable ECU
10) Crank and cam trigger wheels & sensors
11) Fully sequential fuel injection
12) Mazda (Miata) wasted spark coil packs. (distributorless)
13) Pre and post SC throttles with blow off valve
14) Custom cold air intake from 931 bonnet NACA duct
15) Custom intake manifold with 38 to 42mm tapered runners
15) Standard NA bell housing, clutch, torque tube and 5 speed Audi 924 'box

This all combines to give 232 bhp at 6.5k rpm and 231 ft/lb torque.

The current plan is to run this engine (after a winter break for the salty roads!!) for the next year, then swap in the 944 turbo 'box, brembo brakes and re-built engine which includes ARP bolts and cometic head gasket next winter.

I have photo's of the dyno graphs but I cant remember my photobucket login to post them up at the minute!!!

Happy New year, John.
_________________
UK spec '83 N/A with 931 motor with Eaton MP62 'charger @ 15psi. EFI - 565cc inj. Standalone Adaptronic ECU. 951 FMIC. Ally rad. Twin throttle. Recirc valve. Custom manifolds and CAI. 232bhp
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WEASEL149  



Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 595
Location: UK, Sheffield

PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's pretty impressive - more power and torque than a 3.2 Carrera.

I bet it's nice to drive on our roads too with the low-down SC torque delivery.

My engine's in pieces at the mo. Hopefully I can get her back together with working EFI
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1979 UK 932
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Euro924S2  



Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 183
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers buddy. Yeah, there's something very addictive about the low down grunt and the 'charger whine!!

Agree the powers pretty good but at the moment very little is optimised. Being an experimental engine, I've not dedicated much time on porting the various components and certainly there has been no polishing!!! Simply adjusting the tappets prior to the dyno run would have been a good idea!! Go knows when they were last looked at!! It's for this reason I'm delaying fitting the new engine - better to take my time prepping everything properly so the swap is less rushed. I rushed this setup to get it running before it was too late in the show season.

Back to the power though, it's the cars original low weight compared to safety featured modern cars that helps big time - 205 bhp per tonne is equivalent to some pretty sweet cars like the 300bhp Focus RS and current Boxster S!!

Best of luck with the EFI - I'm the recent proud owner of a new TIG welder so if there's anything you need help with then I'll do what I can! I'm practicing ready to make a new aluminium inlet manifold - I recon I can remove 40 - 50kg under the bonnet by swapping steel components for ali, shrinking the washer bottle and swapping the firewall heat proofing for a modern light weight version - it's tatty anyway so easy improvement when the engines out. Fuel accumulators going in the bin now too since not needed for the EFI.

Cheers. John.
_________________
UK spec '83 N/A with 931 motor with Eaton MP62 'charger @ 15psi. EFI - 565cc inj. Standalone Adaptronic ECU. 951 FMIC. Ally rad. Twin throttle. Recirc valve. Custom manifolds and CAI. 232bhp
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kcoyle  



Joined: 15 Jan 2011
Posts: 712
Location: Long Island, NY

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slightly off topic, but are those lo profile pop-up headlights you made too?
I had a set on my old miata and I thought they were the shiznit.
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1982 931- Stock with MBC at 8psi

Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools. I can fix it.
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Khal  



Joined: 26 Sep 2003
Posts: 4864
Location: Sunny and lovely interior BC, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fantastic!

The lesson, kiddies? Crank the boost 50%, fuel-inject it and sort the intake and... VIOLA! 75% more power! No spaghetti exhaust necessary.

What've I been sayin' for years? It's all in the intake. Back me up, Min...
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'80 924 Turbo
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Euro924S2  



Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 183
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ Khal, Cheers mate. Intake is indeed very important, and non more so than on a Roots supercharger. These chargers are well known to be very sensitive to pre-charger restrictions. I'm currently working on modifying the bulk head behind the charger to allow a smoother root for the incoming air. On the 231 bhp run, there was still a bit of squashing of the silicone elbow. I've now bought most of the aluminium i need to make a new inlet manifold and supercharger outlet manifold, which I'm going to spend much more time on to hopefully improve their efficiency. I've also bought another 951 IC which I'm going to mount a new end tank to, again to try and improve flow.

With optimised intake and 99 ron super unleaded fuel (231bhp was on 95ron) I hope to get another 30bhp by maintaining the torque curve to higher RPM.


@Kcoyle: Yeah, they are a self made kit, but ironically they are a copy of my brothers IL motorsport lo-pro's which I fitted to his Mk1 Miata (supercharged to 215bhp with Jackson racing MP45). Mine have been on for the past 9 years and I have HID units on both dip and main beam - they are awesome on the back roads !!!!
_________________
UK spec '83 N/A with 931 motor with Eaton MP62 'charger @ 15psi. EFI - 565cc inj. Standalone Adaptronic ECU. 951 FMIC. Ally rad. Twin throttle. Recirc valve. Custom manifolds and CAI. 232bhp
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Khal  



Joined: 26 Sep 2003
Posts: 4864
Location: Sunny and lovely interior BC, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Khal wrote:
...75% more power...


Sorry, my percentages were off... it' about 30% more horses.

Very impressive, all the same. Congrat's!
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'80 924 Turbo


Last edited by Khal on Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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Raceboy  



Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 2320
Location: Estonia, Europe

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Khal wrote:
Fantastic!

The lesson, kiddies? Crank the boost 50%, fuel-inject it and sort the intake and... VIOLA! 75% more power! No spaghetti exhaust necessary.

What've I been sayin' for years? It's all in the intake. Back me up, Min...


My boosted 924 runs at 0.95 bars and stock NA intake, ~250 hp/330 Nm.
_________________
'83 924 2.6 16v Turbo, 470hp
'67 911 2.4S hotrod
'90 944 S2 Cabriolet
'78 924 Carrera GT replica
'84 928 S
'91 944 S2, sold
'82 924S/931 "Gulf", sold
'84 924, turbocharged, sold.
http://www.facebook.com/vemsporsche
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Khal  



Joined: 26 Sep 2003
Posts: 4864
Location: Sunny and lovely interior BC, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raceboy wrote:
Khal wrote:
Fantastic!

The lesson, kiddies? Crank the boost 50%, fuel-inject it and sort the intake and... VIOLA! 75% more power! No spaghetti exhaust necessary.

What've I been sayin' for years? It's all in the intake. Back me up, Min...


My boosted 924 runs at 0.95 bars and stock NA intake, ~250 hp/330 Nm.


Yes. But yours is an anomaly. I'm still scratching my head over that one. What compression is it running?
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'80 924 Turbo
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Raceboy  



Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 2320
Location: Estonia, Europe

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Khal wrote:
What compression is it running?


Stock euro spec: 9.3:1
_________________
'83 924 2.6 16v Turbo, 470hp
'67 911 2.4S hotrod
'90 944 S2 Cabriolet
'78 924 Carrera GT replica
'84 928 S
'91 944 S2, sold
'82 924S/931 "Gulf", sold
'84 924, turbocharged, sold.
http://www.facebook.com/vemsporsche
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WEASEL149  



Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 595
Location: UK, Sheffield

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Khal wrote:
Raceboy wrote:
Khal wrote:
Fantastic!

The lesson, kiddies? Crank the boost 50%, fuel-inject it and sort the intake and... VIOLA! 75% more power! No spaghetti exhaust necessary.

What've I been sayin' for years? It's all in the intake. Back me up, Min...


My boosted 924 runs at 0.95 bars and stock NA intake, ~250 hp/330 Nm.


Yes. But yours is an anomaly. I'm still scratching my head over that one. What compression is it running?


I don't think it is an anomaly. It's the result of using a modern turbo, along with effective intercooling and a well-tuned full engine management system. This along with 9.3:1 compression and nearly 1 bar boost should give around 250hp.
If you increased the compression on a 931 to 9.3:1, fitted an intercooler, better modern turbo and VEMS engine management you would expect the same...
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1979 UK 932
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flosho  



Joined: 01 Jul 2004
Posts: 3153
Location: Eau Claire, Wisconsin

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Imo, our cars use terribly low compression ratios compared to modern cars. With solid efi engine management a higher static CR like what raceboys n/a has is not even a concern.
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kcoyle  



Joined: 15 Jan 2011
Posts: 712
Location: Long Island, NY

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WEASEL149 wrote:

I don't think it is an anomaly. It's the result of using a modern turbo, along with effective intercooling and a well-tuned full engine management system. This along with 9.3:1 compression and nearly 1 bar boost should give around 250hp.
If you increased the compression on a 931 to 9.3:1, fitted an intercooler, better modern turbo and VEMS engine management you would expect the same...


I can see that. My old 1.8 turbo miata (9.0 comp I think) with FMIC,link ecu, and small turbo made about 230hp on the dyno at 12psi.
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1982 931- Stock with MBC at 8psi

Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools. I can fix it.
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leadfoot  



Joined: 11 Dec 2002
Posts: 2222
Location: gOLD cOAST Australia

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah my various engines havemade similar numbers,
I do believe heat management is important; through coolant flow 83~85c, oil and air.
Compression can be increased along with advance for considerable gains,
Although a change in heads does summount to increased head flow.
10psi boost intercooled shoud net you 210/215bhp easily. After that the 10bhp/psi equation should apply provided the above is managed.
In regards to flow restrictions on sc's, ive never really understood the twin throttle setups, i think its a waste and just a flow retriction. It can help control tip in if your tune is fairly rough or you dont havean adjustable air byass solenoid. Blow through throttle is by far simpler and easier to tune.
I changed my 63mm intake for a 100mm tube and the difference was instantaneous.
I also think the m62's are too small the 1200cc blower i used for a mild conversion was nice but the 1400cc blower rc has is the ideal size.
Stu
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1981 ROW 924 Turbo -
carbon fiber GT mish mash
LS1 conversion in progress...
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Raceboy  



Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 2320
Location: Estonia, Europe

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Additional throttle body is beneficial on turbocharged engines as it acts better than BOV and eliminates the necessity of one at all. '80's turbo era F1 engines utilized pre-turbo throttle widely.
I'm planning this next winter if I keep my Gulf by then.
_________________
'83 924 2.6 16v Turbo, 470hp
'67 911 2.4S hotrod
'90 944 S2 Cabriolet
'78 924 Carrera GT replica
'84 928 S
'91 944 S2, sold
'82 924S/931 "Gulf", sold
'84 924, turbocharged, sold.
http://www.facebook.com/vemsporsche
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