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ic932
Joined: 11 Feb 2005 Posts: 1104 Location: UK
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Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:56 am Post subject: |
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Just read and learn... |
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Paul
Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 9491 Location: Southeast Wisconsin
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Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:57 am Post subject: |
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All this talk about doing a complete FOES every 3 years or 36,000 miles, always makes me wonder if anyone has ever really done this.
And doing it once when you first bought the car does not count unless you did a complete FOES 3 years or 36,000 later.
ANYONE? _________________ White 87 924S "Ghost"
Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
White 01 986 "Christine"
Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
Owned and repaired 924s since 1977
Porsche: It's not driving, it's therapy. |
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924guy
Joined: 29 Dec 2003 Posts: 2088 Location: Port St. Lucie, FL
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Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:58 am Post subject: |
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this 951 vs 931 is a silly argument, but i throw in my .02 anyhow.
an 86 951 is 217 hp according to kevins page http://www.connact.com/~kgross/FAQ/944faq02.html and weighs about 20 pounds less than a 931 (same page), i see no reason why with a little work a 931 cant run with a 951. in fact i have seen it happen, but i cant account for the condition of the 951 so i dont really count it.
951's are awesome cars, but penny for penny, the 931 is a much less expensive option and has more low $$ upgrade potential in my humble opinion. _________________ Eric
78 924
82 931 SE "smokey"
99' VehiCross
Y2K Honda Insight
http://www.cardomain.com/id/924Guy
Performance by Pasha
Last edited by 924guy on Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:20 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ic932
Joined: 11 Feb 2005 Posts: 1104 Location: UK
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Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:01 am Post subject: |
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Paul wrote: | All this talk about doing a complete FOES every 3 years or 36,000 miles, always makes me wonder if anyone has ever really done this.
And doing it once when you first bought the car does not count unless you did a complete FOES 3 years or 36,000 later.
ANYONE? |
Paul, of course no one has done it. But I bet there are a few thousand who have paid for it to be done...least they think they have!
Last edited by ic932 on Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:02 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Nein37
Joined: 29 Dec 2009 Posts: 513 Location: New London, CT
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Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:01 am Post subject: |
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ic932 wrote: | Just read and learn... |
Dude... FO. _________________ 1981 931 CGT replica, OEM CGT intercooler, .8 BAR WG spring, GTS Headlights, Innovative Wide band A/F, A/C delete, 16" Fuchs, Weltmeister 200lb lowering springs, Bilstein HDs front, Koni Sport rears. |
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ic932
Joined: 11 Feb 2005 Posts: 1104 Location: UK
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Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:08 am Post subject: |
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Hey, chill out ok. Nothing bad has happened. Just read the complete post and let your enthusiasm take a back seat. Now I like your CGT rep, but I doubt it could live with any of my old 932's. I'm only just touching those babies with my 3litre16V motors....I have welded in 924 engine mounts into my 944 chassis so don't ever believe that I don't know the 931's possibilities. |
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ic932
Joined: 11 Feb 2005 Posts: 1104 Location: UK
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Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:13 am Post subject: |
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924guy wrote: | this is a silly argument, but i throw in my .02 anyhow.
an 86 951 is 217 hp according to kevins page http://www.connact.com/~kgross/FAQ/944faq02.html and weighs about 20 pounds less than a 931 (same page), i see no reason why with a little work a 931 cant run with a 951. in fact i have seen it happen, but i cant account for the condition of the 951 so i dont really count it.
951's are awesome cars, but penny for penny, the 931 is a much less expensive option and has more low $$ upgrade potential. |
I think you have a great point. But you too are falling into the same trap! the comparison is between STOCK applications! |
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Paul
Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 9491 Location: Southeast Wisconsin
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Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:25 am Post subject: |
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ic932 wrote: | Paul wrote: | All this talk about doing a complete FOES every 3 years or 36,000 miles, always makes me wonder if anyone has ever really done this.
And doing it once when you first bought the car does not count unless you did a complete FOES 3 years or 36,000 later.
ANYONE? |
Paul, of course no one has done it. But I bet there are a few thousand who have paid for it to be done...least they think they have! |
OK it counts if you have paid someone to do it.
ANYONE? _________________ White 87 924S "Ghost"
Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
White 01 986 "Christine"
Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
Owned and repaired 924s since 1977
Porsche: It's not driving, it's therapy. |
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Nein37
Joined: 29 Dec 2009 Posts: 513 Location: New London, CT
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Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:26 am Post subject: |
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You called me a prick... I generally have a problem with people who do that. Your condescending tone doesn't help the matter. _________________ 1981 931 CGT replica, OEM CGT intercooler, .8 BAR WG spring, GTS Headlights, Innovative Wide band A/F, A/C delete, 16" Fuchs, Weltmeister 200lb lowering springs, Bilstein HDs front, Koni Sport rears. |
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Nein37
Joined: 29 Dec 2009 Posts: 513 Location: New London, CT
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Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:30 am Post subject: |
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ic932 wrote: | 924guy wrote: | this is a silly argument, but i throw in my .02 anyhow.
an 86 951 is 217 hp according to kevins page http://www.connact.com/~kgross/FAQ/944faq02.html and weighs about 20 pounds less than a 931 (same page), i see no reason why with a little work a 931 cant run with a 951. in fact i have seen it happen, but i cant account for the condition of the 951 so i dont really count it.
951's are awesome cars, but penny for penny, the 931 is a much less expensive option and has more low $$ upgrade potential. |
I think you have a great point. But you too are falling into the same trap! the comparison is between STOCK applications! |
Assuming they were either both US or both Euro and if for some strange reason I could not mod either car (931 or 944) then yes I would choose the 944. The Porsche designed lump is the better engine and not having a turbo would in the long run be easier to maintain and probably longer lived. In this context its really a no brainer and a clear reason why the 944 was such a great seller. _________________ 1981 931 CGT replica, OEM CGT intercooler, .8 BAR WG spring, GTS Headlights, Innovative Wide band A/F, A/C delete, 16" Fuchs, Weltmeister 200lb lowering springs, Bilstein HDs front, Koni Sport rears. |
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ic932
Joined: 11 Feb 2005 Posts: 1104 Location: UK
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Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:32 am Post subject: |
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Nein37 wrote: | You called me a prick... I generally have a problem with people who do that. Your condescending tone doesn't help the matter. |
Ok, culture clash...pub talk for us... I apologise. It's really like saying silly billy to our kids.
Which in turn is condscending so my excuse is feeble.
I do not want to isolate myself further then I have to with any other board member... So once again, I apologise. |
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Nein37
Joined: 29 Dec 2009 Posts: 513 Location: New London, CT
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Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:41 am Post subject: |
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Accepted and I apologize as well for being such a prick in one of my responses, I could have easily made my point with out calling you an "island monkey" _________________ 1981 931 CGT replica, OEM CGT intercooler, .8 BAR WG spring, GTS Headlights, Innovative Wide band A/F, A/C delete, 16" Fuchs, Weltmeister 200lb lowering springs, Bilstein HDs front, Koni Sport rears. |
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ic932
Joined: 11 Feb 2005 Posts: 1104 Location: UK
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Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:51 am Post subject: |
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Island monkey huh? I like that, it has its advantages. Thick skin being one of them lol
I'm a 931 guy to the bone...I also love the other models that were developed from it. I won't sit back and let them be badmouthed though |
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ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004 Posts: 15548 Location: Spring Lake MI
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Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:25 am Post subject: |
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The point of this whole discussion is that GRM made the comparison of the 931 to the 944. Bringing up a 924NA or a 951, while interesting, is orthogonal to the discussion at hand.
And who said the comparison had to be stock-to-stock comparison? Plain and simple, a 931 offers more bang for the buck in terms of initial cost, cost to maintain, and cost to modify than the 944, beats it hands down in all three comparisons.
As for reliability, I can only comment on my experience. My 924S broke down and stranded me or my son more times in the 9 months I owned it than my three running 931s, my 928 and my 924 NA combined. The only time I have EVER been stranded by a 931 was in the first month of ownership before I had opportunity to do my own preventive maintenance.
The 924S also cost me more money than any one of my other cars to get running into reliable, saleable condition, and YES, that includes the 928 with full FOES service. Now bear in mind, this car had full documented history and was a 2-owner car before I got it, maintained by an absolutely anal Porsche guy, local PCA member. But the car was at about the 100K mark in mileage, and a whole bunch of things started going wrong all at once. Took me 9 months to sort out. None of my other 924s took nearly that long or caused nearly the frustration.
I realize this is only one example, but as I said, all of my 931s have been way more reliable.
As for maintenance intervals, I unloaded the 924S as fast as I could, so I didn't own it long enough to accumulate the miles required to redo FOES. As for the 928, because it's not an interference motor, I have not done FOES every 36 months. I did it within the first year of owning it, and have put less than 5K miles per year on it since. Given the risk vs. the cost on that car, I'm perfectly happy to drive it until the belt breaks since it won't damage the motor. If I had a 2.5L 924S/944 or a 32V 928, I wouldn't be so cavalier about it. _________________ erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made |
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Rasta Monsta
Joined: 12 Jul 2006 Posts: 11723 Location: PacNW
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Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:35 am Post subject: |
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ic932 wrote: | Stop being a prick and read & listen! |
HEY doodoohead! Stop calling people names!
Ahem. . .
Just two cents, though, regarding your 924/31 944/51 comparison. The turbo upgrade netted about a 50% increase in HP for the toofah (115 vs 170). For your 951, the increase was 40% (160 vs 225).
So, what is it exactly that you are describing as embarassing? _________________ Toofah King Bad
- WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3
Last edited by Rasta Monsta on Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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