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intercooler Q
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SandmanUtah  
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2002 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahhh...ok. So water cooling around the turbo, right? I haven't seen any pics or info on doing that with these little kkk's or is that a feature on the bigger one you added? I absolutely want to lube and cool this thing properly, as that has been the main source of discontent with me and this car as the oil would bake out of it and eat itself up. I'll go rummage around the tech section some more and see about oiling and cooling tips there as well.
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Alex Roy  
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2002 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know this may not apply to the 931, but check out my front-mount intercooler install on my 924. I still have the pop-up lights and they work perfectly. Click on the link below to go to my website.
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Rick MacLaren  
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2002 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sandman, well, please don't mistake 'water cooling around the turbo' to mean spraying water ONTO the turbo, cause that'll result in disaster. One guy here asked about that and all I can see happening there is a lot of steam and unpleasant sounds from the turbocharger as the metal on the housing cracks.

Turbos can be cooled by oil. Other things too I suppose.

Intercoolers cool intake charge and these may be cooled by water or air. Turbocharged speedboats are a good example. They can also be cooled by air. But these are contained water systems, where no water hits the turbocharger housing.

Perhaps there are water-cooled turbos. But I don't have one, and neither do you. Our turbos on the 931's are cooled by oil and, to a very minimal extent, by the temperature of the air in the engine bay.
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Geddy T  
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2002 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are definitely water-cooled turbos. In fact, it would be hard to find a recent model that isn't. But there you're talking water that's contained in discreet water jackets around the bearings, not dumped on the outer casing (steam... snap crackle pop!). Besides, you don't necessarily want to cool every part of a turbo that much. Keep the hot end hot!--better gas expansion! Rick is right, water cooling can be done by getting an air to water intercooler, which is basically a smaller intercooler with water passages connecting to the radiator or its own radiator. What you're probably thinking of is water INJECTION, which is spraying a tiny amount of water directly INTO the intake air. Sucking it up with the air/fuel mixture. It has great cooling properties during compression. I'm not so sure if it would be as effective if used in conjunction with an IC, though, as you would be spraying it into cooler air and it might not evaporate as readily... or it would anyway once it started getting compressed... worth looking into... racking brain...
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SandmanUtah  
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2002 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL..no, I wasn't thinking of it as a spray on the surface application, but thanks for the heads up. I am aware of the later model turbos from a variety of manufacturers running the water jackets with the turbos for cooling, so I was just curious if you had adapted one to your car is all. Although, just for fun, a while back, Keith Black did run a 200 mph camaro out in this neck of the woods and was experimenting with nitrous sprayed onto the block for cooling. Now did that explode after a few runs? Who knows, they sure didn't mention it in the mags that covered it! I know the intercooler cooling intake air is a completely separate thing, but it's all a system, right? Thanks for the input guys.
Sean
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Rick MacLaren  
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2002 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah a water jacket would essentially operate like coolant does inside an engine. Same principle. Kind of makes more sense than oil even.

I've thought about water injection with an IC, but I can't get past where you'd inject it. Before the cooler? Dunno. One side of me thinks it'd have to be after the intercooler, cause the misted air would likely hit the walls of the cooler, and drip, rather than stay in mist form. It's also a bit like 'guilding the lilly', in that you've already got added cooling from the cooler, so a mist of cool wet air is just adding to a nearly perfect operating environment.

Alex...where's the link to see your car?

Sandman, if you're new to the 931, I think it's fair to say the 931 turbos are really robust little units. The oil cooling that many guys adopt is a second oil cooler. I don't know why guys haven't tried a larger oil cooler, but that could be an option too.

Note too, if you're new to this, a turbo timer is a good investment to keep the oil from coking the turbine axles - 951's came with a stock timer, but one for ours can be purchased for a hundred or so USD, and it just keeps the engine running for as long as you like once you stop the vehicle.


[ This Message was edited by: Rick MacLaren on 2002-06-05 02:06 ]
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Alex Roy  
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2002 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The little House icon (the www icon) at the bottom of my post.

Or just go to http://www.alexroy.net

_________________
Alex Roy
White 924 N/A, BAE turbo kit, Gemballa body kit, Haltech E6 engine management. A project in progress.

[ This Message was edited by: Alex Roy on 2002-06-05 03:34 ]
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Rick MacLaren  
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2002 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex.

The intake is excellent. Good work.

Fuel rail - Awesome. Did you use the stock injectors, or get new ones? And if you got new ones, how did you handle the threads?

What would you charge someone to make a fuel rail like that for a 931? Hypothetically, of course.

[ This Message was edited by: Rick MacLaren on 2002-06-05 03:43 ]
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Alex Roy  
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2002 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had to drill the head to fit the press-in electronic fuel injectors. I am going to be using accel 30# injectors as the final ones (I have mustang svo injectors right now for test fitting etc).

To make a fuel rail, I would say somewhere in the neighborhood of $150 if I was supplied with a usable aluminum grand prix fuel rail to "bastardize", and probably another $50+ to polish like mine.

I do know that the early Mitsubishi Eclipse fuel rails are the perfect dimensions, but they use smaller diameter injectors (which might be a good thing). I have also been told that the Chrysler 2.2 turbo engines have a fuel rail that fits.
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Rick MacLaren  
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2002 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent. And you're using an NA head?
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Alex Roy  
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2002 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, my car is a '79 924n/a with the (no comments) BAE turbo kit.
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Rick MacLaren  
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2002 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha. Not to worry, the BAE, properly installed, and controlled for intake temperature and engine strength, can be an excellent setup...it looks like you've controlled for both...can't get over that fuel rail...

[ This Message was edited by: Rick MacLaren on 2002-06-05 11:41 ]
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John H  
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2002 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2002-06-05 01:55, Rick MacLaren wrote:
Sandman, if you're new to the 931, I think it's fair to say the 931 turbos are really robust little units. The oil cooling that many guys adopt is a second oil cooler. I don't know why guys haven't tried a larger oil cooler, but that could be an option too.

In answer to Ricks question on why one big cooler wasn't used. I tried using a big cooler off a RX7 Mazda mounted in front of the radiator Only place for it to fit on my car. For road use this was almost OK but for racing it was useless. The airflow over the oil cooler then went through the radiator. This air was heated by the oil and caused the car to run hotter than I required. By reinstalling the standard 931 cooler and placing a small (9 row) cooler in front of the radiator the car ran cooler for racing.
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larso  
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2002 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm so maybe a relocation of the oil cooler, such as inside one of the fender wells, only problem is long oil lines prone to easier failure and more expensive to replace.
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Cbass  
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2002 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, with brake ducts too.

Has any thought of a oil/water oil cooler ?

From my experience, oil runs pretty hot, I'm not sure whether or not it is hotter than coolant. If it is, you could cool it with the coolant.

This would probably overload the rad, so you would need to replace it with a new unit...

_________________

2001 Black all leather Enzo Carsinis

[ This Message was edited by: Cbass on 2002-06-11 11:04 ]
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