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No Fire
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oldmanwintersret  



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 133
Location: San Antonio, Texas

PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:36 am    Post subject: No Fire Reply with quote

I have an '82 924 NA which appears to enjoy tormenting me. I am have problems finding the cause. Sometimes I get fire to the plugs, sometimes do not. I have checked all electrical connections and bench tested the coil still no fire. At present I am going through the Haynes manual but am at a loss for the next sequential steps. Can some help be tossed this way as I am still learning.
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gohim  



Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 4459
Location: Rialto, CA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The breakerless module in the distributor has probably died. The design in your car was only used on cars model year 81 and newer.

This particular design is used in many different makes and models of cars during that period, and they have a tendency to die any time near or after 100K miles.
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Nobbi  



Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 1379
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you also checked you ignition lock? Move the key when trying to start.
That couldt be it... cheap fix.
_________________
NA 924 - april/1977- 4-speed-audi gearbox.
500.000 km with fun.....and new toy:Porsche 944 S2 Cabriolet.Other car Daimler c-class cabby,brandnew..Plus : DEUTZ 4005 tractor Built 1969
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oldmanwintersret  



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 133
Location: San Antonio, Texas

PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That explains why there were four dizzies in the back seat! Anyway, went to the Wells Directory as I work in a parts store and found that Haynes had a misprint on the coil values. Put in a new coil, it fired up. I am crossing my fingers. Now for fine tuning, clean-up and scrounging for more parts. This will be my last project car unless I find a Charger or 911 that I like.
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D Hook  



Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 3156
Location: Omaha, NE

PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you post what the misprint is and what the correct number is? Thanks!
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'80 924 n/a SOLD
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oldmanwintersret  



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 133
Location: San Antonio, Texas

PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure the primary values for the coil from Wells is 0.4-0.8. The secondary values are2.5-3.20 in OHMS.

My 924 is still tormenting me though. Have current to the new coil, verified by a test light and now no fire from the coil again. Game plan is to retest the new coil (it's possible but I don't think the new one went bad so fast) To do some research as it is possible I might have the wrong voltages going to the coil. Relays and I guess possibly the ignition switch.

Another thought occured to me maybe the wires are crossed. What side of the coil does the green wire hook up too?
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RC  



Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 2636
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oldmanwintersret wrote:
The secondary values are2.5-3.20 in OHMS.

The misprint is clearly in wells then.

Quote:

My 924 is still tormenting me though. Have current to the new coil, verified by a test light and now no fire from the coil again. Game plan is to retest the new coil (it's possible but I don't think the new one went bad so fast) To do some research as it is possible I might have the wrong voltages going to the coil. Relays and I guess possibly the ignition switch.

Another thought occured to me maybe the wires are crossed. What side of the coil does the green wire hook up too?


Why do novices always blame the coil? Coz no spark comes out the top?

Now theres 4 dizzys and 1 coil in the back.

A jumper lead from coil + to battery + will bypass switch & wiring. No relay. Green wire is only for tacho and goes to coil -.

Likely fault is hall sensor as Gohim suggests or possibly TIU. Cheaper in long run to take both to auto electrician to test.
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gohim  



Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 4459
Location: Rialto, CA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you have the Porsche Factory Workshop Manual, are you following the troubleshooting guide, and have you tried bypassing the electronic idle stabilizer?
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oldmanwintersret  



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 133
Location: San Antonio, Texas

PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, yes I am a novice. I greatly appreciate the info, that is why I ask instead of getting fustrated. As far as the ignition wiring is concerned it appears to be a hybrid between the turbo version and the N/A. ( I determined this from the Haynes Supplement and looking at an unmolested N/A). It has the N/A throttle body with Thermo Switches and harness. But things doesn't match up in the front left fender and there are no disconnected wires in that area. There are pieces of a DIT in the back seat. In addition, since the green wire is supposed to be for the Tach, then there is a another wire missing.

I do not have the Factory Service Manual as of yet but have plans to purchase one in the near future so please bear with me and educate me to the best of your abilities as this is the first Porsche I have owned. In fact it is the first import I have owned other than Nissan. I know how important the FSM is but am not quite in a position to purchase one as of yet. I don't mind even if you guys give me a good flaming, I am just trying to work with what I have which is not that $$$$$$$$$$$ much at present. I have a mechanic taking a look at it at present but he admitted that he is not that familiar with German Vehicles. I just want to get the car running enough to get to the body shop then to a more reputable shop where they can figure out EXACTLY what the previous owner done.
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oldmanwintersret  



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 133
Location: San Antonio, Texas

PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This week I am going to give this a try as it appears somewhat close to my symptoms.


http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=26658&highlight=breakerless+module


Last edited by oldmanwintersret on Fri May 01, 2009 5:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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gohim  



Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 4459
Location: Rialto, CA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Much of the information in the post you provided the link for does not apply to your car. It was for a 1980 car.

As I wrote before, your car uses a different system with different problems. There were only a few thousand 1981 and 1982 US Model 924s produced, so nobody except Porsche printed updated service manuals covering those cars.

The only cars that would look same under the hood as your cars will be 1981 and later 924 cars. You cannot compare your car under the hood to photos you find in the Haynes manual, or cars on the street that are older than a 1981.

The Haynes Manual is useless for 1980 and later cars because 1980 is when Porsche started making more significant changes to the cars, and Haynes never rewrote their manual (written in 1977, they just added the few pages to the back of the manual to cover 1980 and later models, which don't really cover anything in detail).

The Chilton, and Clymer Manuals will not do you any good either.

YOU NEED A CURRENT VERSION PORSCHE FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL, NOTHING ELSE WILL HAVE ALL OF THE INFORMATION YOU NEED. If you can find one, the Porsche Factory 1982 New Model Year Information Manual should have a lot of useful information for you, including the wiring diagram.
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oldmanwintersret  



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 133
Location: San Antonio, Texas

PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was suspecting that but was holding my guns. My Nissan is heavily dependent on both the Haynes and the FSM. The vehicle I compared it to was of the same year and model as mine. In a way I kind of wish I had the money to purchase it and use mine for parts. But that would also take away the fun of being familiar with the vehicle.
Purchase of a FSM is difficult as I am supporting two college students, whom are not even partially financially independent.
Now as I have had some proper sleep this statement make sense. I could kick myself for passing it by but that is the price of working two fulltime jobs.

A jumper lead from coil + to battery + will bypass switch & wiring. No relay. Green wire is only for tacho and goes to coil -.

Likely fault is hall sensor as Gohim suggests or possibly TIU. Cheaper in long run to take both to auto electrician to test.

Now I guess I will look for a missing coil wire, Apply the above test and find out more about the Hall sensor and the TIU. Also I realize that it is possible that the five dizzies I have might just be wornout junk. It seems that I have my work and learning curve cut out for me. Guess I'm going try pulling even more O.T. to get the FSM.
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oldmanwintersret  



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 133
Location: San Antonio, Texas

PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will these suffice as a substitute until I get the U.S. Hardcopies?

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Last edited by oldmanwintersret on Fri May 01, 2009 5:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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gohim  



Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 4459
Location: Rialto, CA

PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have seen used copies of the Factory Service Manual sell for as little as $25-$75 at swapmeets and on eBay. There is no reason that you could not find a Genuine Porsche Factory Service Manual for less than $100 if you looked.

Any copies of Porsche Service Information you find on the net are illegal, unauthorized copies, and it would be illegal to copy/download pages, or complete manuals, from those sites.

Porsche vigorously defends it's patents, trademarks, and copyrights. I don't recommend any online source for downloading illegal, unauthorized, copies of the Factory Service Manual.

The Ford Performance Website that I frequent recently had a fund drive soliciting donations for the Former Operator of a different website who has been paying off Ford under a Court Agreement for thousands of unauthorized copies of Ford Factory Service Manuals that he allowed people to download copies of from his site. He claims that he thought he was doing a public service, and had no idea that what he was doing was illegal. This man has been paying Ford bit by bit for over four years with no end in sight.

And lastly, generic parts are a NO-NO. Cheap parts made in third world toliets are not the same as Genuine or OE German made parts. I have seen more people than I can count waste more money than I can count, trying to fix problems they don't understand because they are unwilling to read the Service Manual to understand how something is supposed to work, who insist on trying fix problems by throwing parts at a car. A good example of this is the number of people who insist on replacing the ignition coil when there isn't any spark, instead of doing some investigation first (on Porsches and VWs, this could be (and usually is) a defective ignition switch, or a ballast resistor, or a defective distributor or ignition module, or bad wiring at the battery, starter, or alternator).

If you insist on running to AutoZone to buy cheap no-name, non-original replacement parts , instead of the real thing, you are going to be hurting, and frustrated when you can't get your car running, or keep it that way.
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oldmanwintersret  



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 133
Location: San Antonio, Texas

PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the input. The mechanic that I turned the car over to located a legit manual locally. Also a local 924 owner Pm'd me and is willing to help me out. Hopefully there won't be any more Noob questions from this end.
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