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Official Cometic MLS Head Gasket Group Buy
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15548
Location: Spring Lake MI

PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, similar results here in our earlier conversations with the US guys. I'm not exactly clear why they need the heads and blocks since they obviously already have the pattern for the copper gasket. Before I commit to schlepping all the way over to Cleveland, I'm going to query them on that issue...

I'm pretty confident that one piece will do the trick for both NAs and turbos. I'll bring the issue up to them as well just to solicit their opinion on the matter.
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gegge  



Joined: 27 Jul 2007
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Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am interested in buying 2.
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emoore924  



Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2815

PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Use the turbo design. The 931 part superceded the 924 part a long time ago and significantly improved the coolant flow in the head as a result of closing off a couple of coolant passages between the head and block I think. The turbo part works fine for the n/a, in fact I think the n/a part has been NLA for a while and everyone uses the turbo part. Call your local porsche dealer if you want to confirm.
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RC  



Joined: 25 Mar 2007
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Location: Australia

PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can add one more vote to what others are saying about the 931 gasket being identical to the NA and listed/sold as such.

Top gasket is Victor Reinz 931 104 337 06 listed and sold for both turbo and NA at Autohaus AZ and Pelican. Bottom one is (stuffed) Goetze 30-024335-10 for NA. The size and position of the coolant holes are identical, viewed on top of each other up to the light.

Would only think it necessary to send Cometic an OE gasket to duplicate. However if they do require block and heads as well would IMO specify that the coolant holes be identical location/diameter to the well developed (over 30 years) OE gaskets. In fact I believe this should be stipulated. Perhaps open to some discussion, but we wouldnt want 50+ MLS gaskets that have any overheating problems.

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CrashTest  



Joined: 01 Apr 2008
Posts: 81
Location: Daytona Beach, FL 32114

PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The man indeed!

I will take at least one and perhaps 2 depending on price...
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15548
Location: Spring Lake MI

PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RC wrote:
Would only think it necessary to send Cometic an OE gasket to duplicate. However if they do require block and heads as well would IMO specify that the coolant holes be identical location/diameter to the well developed (over 30 years) OE gaskets. In fact I believe this should be stipulated. Perhaps open to some discussion, but we wouldnt want 50+ MLS gaskets that have any overheating problems.


Thanks for the confirmation Roger.

I talked to Cometic yesterday, and the reason they want the sample block and heads is because they need the surface geometry for the MLS embossments (their copper gaskets are not embossed...hmmm, maybe that has something to do with their sealing issues?!?!?). They also were pleased that I'll be able to provide a sample gasket, so I will print out the relevant info in this thread, and make sure they are clear on how this piece needs to be produced.

I've arranged to pick up a spare NA head from Chris Marsh this afternoon. As of now, the plan is to drop off a block, a 931 head, an NA head, and a Goetze gasket on next Tuesday afternoon. I'll report back once everything has been dropped off.

They also reconfirmed that they'll have pricing to me shortly.
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15548
Location: Spring Lake MI

PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PRICING
The price per piece for this quote is slightly higher than my original conversations, but I presume because we are talking about a lower quantity:
  • 50 pieces minimum order: $83.97 per piece
SPECIFICATIONS
  • This price is for the standard 3-layer gasket
  • If anyone wants thicker than .051", we can accommodate it in the group buy, but it will have to be priced separately
  • 3-layers are available from .027" to .051". Still working on identifying the increments
  • A surface finish of 50 RA (roughness average) or finer, is recommended for a proper gasket seal. Anything rougher may conflict with the gasket design.
  • The MLS gasket cannot be used with o-ringed blocks
PARTICIPATION
In order to participate, we will need funding up front, and we will run this just like we did for the ARP rod bolt group buy. I will use the PayPal account associated with my side business "Ideola New Media" to coordinate. This will include collecting the incoming payments, disbursements to ARP, drop shipment from the facctory to Michigan, and outbound shipments from Michigan to each participant. Here is the process:
  • Ideola will issue paypal invoices to each of the participants that verbally commit in this thread.
  • The invoice will be for the full amount of the total number of pieces ordered, plus the 4% paypal tax (I'm not eating it this time )
  • Participants will remit payment via PayPal or certified funds to Ideola by 15 Feb 2009 (that is two+ weeks out)
  • Ideola will approve the order with Cometic for the appropriate quantity of pieces based on payments received by 15 Feb.
  • If at least 50 sets are paid for by 15 Feb, Ideola will approve the order and issue a purchase order to Cometic, which will trigger things in their production queue.
  • If less than 50 sets are paid for by 15 Feb, Ideola will discuss the options with paid participants (i.e., extend the deadline for payment, see if we can entice more buyers, see if we can convince Cometic to proceed with less than 50, or cancel the group buy and refund payments).
  • Ideola will front the shipment cost from the factory to Michigan.
  • Upon receipt of the completed order, Ideola will issue firm shipping quotes via PayPal invoices to the participants. The shipping cost will be determined by dividing the factory shipment costs by the total number of participants, and adding each participant's shipping fees from Michigan to their locale.
  • Upon receipt of shipping payments, Ideola will ship the orders to each participant using the least expensive shipping method that provides tracking, delivery confirmation, and insurance.

LIST OF PARTICIPANTS
At last count we had something like 38 verbal commits, not including any online resellers. I will be approaching a few as we did last time to see what interest we might generate. Here is the list as of last count:
  • ideola: re-confirmed for 5 pieces
  • peterld: re-confirmed for 4 pieces
  • Fifty50Plus: re-confirmed for 5 pieces
  • tomcooper: re-confirmed for 2 pieces
  • pocketscience: re-confirmed for 1 piece
  • elitejaso: re-confirmed for 2 pieces
  • gegge: re-confirmed for 2 pieces
  • huckster: confirmed for 2 pieces
  • fiat22turbo: re-confirmed for 1 piece
  • anonymous user #1: confirmed for 1 piece
  • CrashTest: re-confirmed for 1 piece
  • Scorpio: original interest in 1 piece
  • 924guy: original interest in 2 pieces
  • bass gt: original interest in 10 pieces
  • Raceboy: original interest in 6 pieces
  • morghen: original interest in 2 pieces

By my math, that gives us 26 re-confirms and 21 original confirms for a grand total of 47. Now that we know pricing, please post back ASAP. For everyone who has already re-confirmed in this thread, I will probably start invoicing on Saturday. As noted above, if we don't get to 50 pieces one way or another, and can't get Cometic to move on a smaller order, I'll just refund 100% of your payment.
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Last edited by ideola on Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:05 am; edited 3 times in total
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15548
Location: Spring Lake MI

PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One more thing, if for any reason, you don't want your name displayed in the list, send me a PM with the quantity you want, and I'll represent you anonymously in the list.
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15548
Location: Spring Lake MI

PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another note, I checked the price on the copper gasket, which retails for ~$108 according to their site. I'd say these look to be a pretty good deal at ~$24 less...
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
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Location: Spring Lake MI

PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just got the thicknesses from Cometic:

3-layer: .027", .030", .036", .040", .045", .051",
5-layer: .060", .066", .070", .075", .080", .086", .092", .098", .120", .140"

Remember, there will be an extra charge for the 5-layer. Don't need your dims now, we'll collect all that when it comes time to officially place the order, but start doing your calcs...
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huckster  



Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 115
Location: Burnaby B.C.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

put me down for two.
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15548
Location: Spring Lake MI

PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

huckster wrote:
put me down for two.

Thanks, done, and updated the list & count.
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924guy  



Joined: 29 Dec 2003
Posts: 2088
Location: Port St. Lucie, FL

PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

im in @2...

dumb questions:
i cant seem to find anything on what stock gasket thickness were...
mls gasket stats above are compressed thickness correct?


dats all folks...
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gegge  



Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 1124
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, would like to add a third gasket to my order:

A 5 layer .086" because I asume that is the closest to stock?

Please provide a priceindication of such.
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Carl Fredrik Torkildsen

924 turbo -81 Carrera GT RESTOMOD
924 turbo -80 Dolomite De Luxe
924 -85 DP kit, BBS RS, M030 and tuned engine
924s -86 Black on black turbo with Fuchs
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CrashTest  



Joined: 01 Apr 2008
Posts: 81
Location: Daytona Beach, FL 32114

PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can anyone say that these pieces are in fact reusable? Also I thought that the .051" was the stock thickness...

sam
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