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Lindsey Intercooler Tube Improved Design

 
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tuurbo  



Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 1446
Location: East Windsor, New Jersey

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:29 am    Post subject: Lindsey Intercooler Tube Improved Design Reply with quote

Here:

http://www.lindseyracing.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=LR&Category_Code=PRODUCT

Looks like a real intercooler now...
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1980 924 turbo, MSD, Meth. Inj, otherwise stock.
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15451
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This must be the "improved" version Dave Lindsey mentioned to me over a year ago. I would still like to see empirical data on the performance and efficiency of these units. Very innovative concept, but without any metrics, it's really hard to justify plunking down $700-$800 for a complete kit with no clear indication of what to expect.

Also, I'm still noodling over the "least destructive" method of installing one of these onto a 931. Flosho's install looks great, but he had to spend some serious time, effort, and coin having the chassis modified from what I recall. One of these days, I'm going to get around to taking my charge tube off of the 941 and play around with a piece of 3" aluminum pipe to see if I can figure a way to fettle one of these in place without major surgery to the car...maybe something like what Eric did with his PWR install.
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88 924S SE | 82 931 Holbert | 81 Euro 931 | 81 Weissach | 80 US 928 | 80 US 931 '941' | 78 D-Prod Replica | 78 w/D-Prod kit | 78 Poli-Form | 78 Limited Edition
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tuurbo  



Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 1446
Location: East Windsor, New Jersey

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah that's what I'm hoping from this new design: That it's like a PWR unit only maybe a tad smaller - if so, and if it's efficient, it could be a great air/water intercooler with the kind of clearance needed under the hood of the 931.

Install wise, I was thinking a direct close fit to the throttle - put the pipe right there and plumb it ahead exactly to where the charge pipe comes up from the turbo - sort of like stock.
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15451
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I already noodled with that configuration. The problem is that the THP is too big in diameter to fit without interfering with the hood and the valve cover. If you look at the stock charge tube, you can see how it was flattened out to accommodate the narrow clearance there.

The other alternative would be to have it run longitudinally in parallel to the valve cover, perhaps mounting it off of the shock tower, but even that would be pretty tight.
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88 924S SE | 82 931 Holbert | 81 Euro 931 | 81 Weissach | 80 US 928 | 80 US 931 '941' | 78 D-Prod Replica | 78 w/D-Prod kit | 78 Poli-Form | 78 Limited Edition
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tuurbo  



Joined: 09 Aug 2007
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Location: East Windsor, New Jersey

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I spoke with Lindsey Racing by phone today and they noted that their hard pipes typically 'halve' the charge temperature. Interesting.

They should have numbers out in the fall.
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tuurbo  



Joined: 09 Aug 2007
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Location: East Windsor, New Jersey

PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone else think that 1/2 the input temperature is a wild claim?

Also, Ideola - maybe one of these charge tubes could run parallel to the valve cover, but inside, above the plugs, and then a sharp 90 to the turbo? It looks like there ought to be space in that cavity.

Anyway, we oughta make one of these things - air water cooler just for our cars - a flatter tube...

Bell makes core sizes that seem flatter - 1.25" and 2.25" ...
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Rasta Monsta  



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
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Location: PacNW

PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That seems like an awful lot of trouble. . .wouldn't a true AWIC be more efficient?
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Toofah King Bad

  • Red (1987 924S) - Pro44/Spec944
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tuurbo  



Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 1446
Location: East Windsor, New Jersey

PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"...wouldn't a true AWIC be more efficient?"

Oh probably. But a custom design that fit with the existing layout would be cool - air/water seems a good way to do it. Just musing about whether that kind of project would be worth it.

I've already got the water injection running nicely - but I guess I figure since I've got some cooling happening, any air water intercooling is a bonus. I'd like to use a PWR system but they're hugely thick.

So the thermal hard pipe is probably just the right size for me. But I'm wondering if a thin one can be fabbed up along with a differently routed pipe from the turbo...
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9xx  



Joined: 18 Jun 2006
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Location: Jarvenpaa, Finland

PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tuurbo wrote:
Anyway, we oughta make one of these things - air water cooler just for our cars - a flatter tube...


I think there would be a demand for a 931 IC. Air to air, air to water... just as long as it would be a simple bolt on like an original CGT intercooler. I would accept a direct CGT replica IC too.

I wish some company would start manufacturing these things. Something that fits without serious modifications. Something for the original setup. Something for the people who see their unmolested cars as a museum pieces and are not willing to cut metal too much.
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All gone: 931 '82 Alpine White, original option "220" G31 with LSD + 3 x 944
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15451
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You'll never get the attention of the boys at Lindsey Racing. Just no where near enough demand. The amount of effort, R&D and marketing required to put into a 931-specific product just wouldn't make any kind of sense from a business perspective. Whatever you put into a 931 product, even if you could achieve break even on it, could tripled or quadrupled in terms of profitability on a 944 product. Look at the THP. How many of us here have the $$$ to drop on one of those for a 931? They are as close to a bolt-in off-the-shelf intercooler as you can find, and I only know one guy who has attempted it. They're relatively cheap compared to the alternatives, and yet only one 931 running one. Sort of illustrates my point.

Not enough 931's, even fewer being modified, and even fewer than that with owners willing and able to spend real $$$ for good quality product.

IMO, the best hope for development is with guys like us who just do it on our own and contribute our learnings to the forum for those who have the time, inclination, and expendable income to duplicate and modify for their own application. Don't mean to be a naysayer, but I just don't think the economics are there for a 924/931 specialists' market.
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88 924S SE | 82 931 Holbert | 81 Euro 931 | 81 Weissach | 80 US 928 | 80 US 931 '941' | 78 D-Prod Replica | 78 w/D-Prod kit | 78 Poli-Form | 78 Limited Edition
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
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Location: Romania

PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The holbert style would be the best IMO..no metal cut....but you'd have to relocate the windscreen washer tank...i would have bought a holbert style IC system if i would have found one...instead i went with the holbert ideea but...IMO improved it.
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