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Slam's clutch work done! NEW PIC July 20
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Slam  



Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 1689
Location: Wainwright, Alberta, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:36 am    Post subject: Slam's clutch work done! NEW PIC July 20 Reply with quote

This is in my 924 Euro -

PO, or someone (bless his/her/its little cotton socks), had put the clutch disc in BACKWARDS! The one I took out is in great shape. Not burned or scored, no broken springs. Thick, plump and juicy. Pressure plate was missing all its lock washers (clue #1). Cable is good. Release bearing is showing a little age. Check out Haynes pic 3.28, though. It's misleading, and doesn't jive with the exploded diagram on the previous facing page. The text says the words "schwungrad seite" should face the flywheel. Tip for WYIT - paint or clean the timing marks thoroughly.

But since I've come all this way, I'm putting new everything in. Forwards.

I went with a Sachs clutch from EBS - cheaper even than RockAuto. I also ordered up the RMS and pilot bearing. Haven't removed the flywheel yet. Been too astounded. I've been walking around saying the word 'backwards' a lot.

Now a question. I've got NLG1 grease for the pilot bearing and was wondering if I can use it on the release fork bushes as well. Will it eat the plastic outer bushing?

Also, anyone got any tips for R&Ring the RMS and getting the pilot bearing out? I was planning to just hook a bolt behind the pilot and hammer away. For the rear seal, I figured a screwdriver knocked into one side to deform it would make it easy to get out.

While I wait for parts I'm going to do the rear bearings. But that's another story.
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'84 944 - all-weather workhorse.
'83 944 - still looks like ass.
'87 944 - wifey's DD, alive and well.
'80 924 - tuned by son #1.
'78 924 - blown up by Scottie.
'77 924 - gift from friend. Future project...
Some wrecks


Last edited by Slam on Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:11 am; edited 6 times in total
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Rasta Monsta  



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11380
Location: PacNW

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There seems to be a lot of discussion lately about removing different types of seals. Seal pullers are cheap and work great:


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Toofah King Bad

  • Red (1987 924S) - Pro44/Spec944
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tux  



Joined: 02 Jul 2006
Posts: 133
Location: Nottingham UK

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If its a euro car you should be able to screw in an M12 bolt and this will push the pilot bearing out. Doesn't always work but worth a try.
I ended up spending hours and hours with a die grinder!
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Pete
Merlin Guards Red 1985 N/A
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Rich H  



Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 2665
Location: Preston, Lancs, UK

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had to use a die grinder too but on the spare engine the rattle gun and an M12 bolt wizzed it out no problem.
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1994 Lotus Esprit S4 - Work in progress...
1980 Porsche 924 S2 DITC Turbo - Original spec
1978 Homo-Sapiens - Tired spec
1953 Landrover S1 - Pensioner Spec
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Slam  



Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 1689
Location: Wainwright, Alberta, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neat idea. So just screw the bolt into the pilot bearing? Bolt bottoms on crank and pilot comes out?

Ah. Now I've done my reading here. It seems there are many horror stories surrounding that little beast. I may leave mine alone and stash the new bearing just in case. It seems that forcing the TT into the bearing kills it. It also appears that the pilot bearing is last on the list of things to fail due to old age. Mine seems okay, but I am usually a staunch proponent of the WYIT school of thought.

Hmmm...
_________________
'84 944 - all-weather workhorse.
'83 944 - still looks like ass.
'87 944 - wifey's DD, alive and well.
'80 924 - tuned by son #1.
'78 924 - blown up by Scottie.
'77 924 - gift from friend. Future project...
Some wrecks
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Brockoli  



Joined: 06 Feb 2007
Posts: 620
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

be very careful putting the TT back into the pilot bearing, as you are already aware of. I believe I damaged mine when doing this. The pilot bearing came apart, and puked shrapnel in between my flywheel and pressure plate. This caused my car to move forward when it was in 1st gear and the clutch was disengaged. Not to mention make a terrible noise.

I didnt think you could put the clutch disc in the wrong way? Doodle asked me about this after I did my clutch. I think if it were in backwards you would never be able to bolt on the pressure plate. If it were in backwards wouldnt the clutch disc never touch the flywheel? The clutch disc in the pictures is flat on the side touching the table and the other side is protruding. I think the protruding side would rub on the bolts that hold the flywheel on, so the car would never move. I think....I dont really know because I have never tried to put the clutch disc in backwards.


My dad got the pilot bearing out and I believe there was a sleeve it was in. I wasnt there when he gt it out. We had to work in shifts to get the car back on the road for the end of summer rally. I do remember that it was crazy hard to get it out. We tried packing it with grease and hitting the clutch alignment tool into the grease to push the pilot out but it didnt work. We tried the bolt trick too but I dont think it worked either.
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'80 924 M471,Wideband O2, Full coilover susp,23/19 sways,Bilstiens,KLA Strut Brace,Roll Bar,Test Pipe,BBS RS, Willwood BBK

25% of a '87 944 Chumpcar http://straightpipe.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=2454

'79 924 Sebring Edition(Sitting)
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Brockoli  



Joined: 06 Feb 2007
Posts: 620
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found the best way to get the TT back in without killing the pilot bearing was to use a ruler to make sure the TT flange is parallel to the cluch housing. I used a jack under the tranny and an engine hoist to change the angle of the tranny and engine to make sure the flange of the TT was parallel to the clutch housing flange. By using the ruler it was really easy to see if the trannny/engine had to be adjusted. It was very hard and took awhile but eventually it slid right in
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'80 924 M471,Wideband O2, Full coilover susp,23/19 sways,Bilstiens,KLA Strut Brace,Roll Bar,Test Pipe,BBS RS, Willwood BBK

25% of a '87 944 Chumpcar http://straightpipe.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=2454

'79 924 Sebring Edition(Sitting)
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Rich H  



Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 2665
Location: Preston, Lancs, UK

PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Change the pilot bearing. Do it. It's painful but the alternate option is drop the lot again.
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1994 Lotus Esprit S4 - Work in progress...
1980 Porsche 924 S2 DITC Turbo - Original spec
1978 Homo-Sapiens - Tired spec
1953 Landrover S1 - Pensioner Spec
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15506
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich H wrote:
Change the pilot bearing. Do it. It's painful but the alternate option is drop the lot again.

+1^
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Chrenan  



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 3899
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich H wrote:
Change the pilot bearing. Do it. It's painful but the alternate option is drop the lot again.


Been there, done that.
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speedster9110  



Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 69
Location: SW of Edmonton, AB, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Use a slide hammer pilot bearing puller.. it just makes life easier...







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1972 914 1.7
1977 924 Martini
1980 924S
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Slam  



Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 1689
Location: Wainwright, Alberta, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright (grumble, grumble), I'll change the pilot bearing. I'll try the bolt method and graduate to the slide hammer if need be.

Brock - good tips on the TT. Do you know if the engine mounts are at the engine centre of gravity? BTW - the clutch in your pic does NOT look like the one I took out. When you installed, did you put the flat side of the disc toward the flywheel? The disc I took out of mine had been chafing somewhere, as the springs had scrape marks on them.

Thanks, guys.
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'84 944 - all-weather workhorse.
'83 944 - still looks like ass.
'87 944 - wifey's DD, alive and well.
'80 924 - tuned by son #1.
'78 924 - blown up by Scottie.
'77 924 - gift from friend. Future project...
Some wrecks
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968rz  



Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 536
Location: S. E. Wisconsin

PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always packed the bearing with axle grease to the brim and using a punch that fits perfect in the hole I hit hard (several times )and it forces the bearing out with no damage.
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Rick
79 924 coupe Petrol Blue 3spd auto (wife's DD)
93 968 coupe Amazon Green 4spd Tip (my DD)
02 Trailblazer Red 5spd auto (wife's winter car)
06 Jetta sedan Graphite Blue 6spd Tip (my winter car)
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Slam  



Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 1689
Location: Wainwright, Alberta, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I looked into that method and found tales of spraying grease and immobile bearings. One source said to pack small pieces of grease-soaked rags in as well. Might try it for the entertainment value, though.
_________________
'84 944 - all-weather workhorse.
'83 944 - still looks like ass.
'87 944 - wifey's DD, alive and well.
'80 924 - tuned by son #1.
'78 924 - blown up by Scottie.
'77 924 - gift from friend. Future project...
Some wrecks
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Brockoli  



Joined: 06 Feb 2007
Posts: 620
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont think the mounts are at the center of gravity of the enigne. I believe they are little bit to the rear of the engine. Loosening the motor mounts helps let the engine move around a bit to get the drive shaft into the pilot bearing. If you put a jack under the oil pan with a piece of wood you can tilt the engine a bit. Not the best way but if you dont have a engine hoist what else can you do.

The scrape marks are probably fromt he flywheel bolts. I guess you can put it in backwards,lol.

I think that all 3 clutch discs I have are slightly different. There seems to be some variation in where the springs are and how many.

Just found some good pics of my '79 engine and the clutch just after taking it off the enigne.






There is not much room between the clutch disc and flywheel...


The best pic to show how mine came out...

_________________
'80 924 M471,Wideband O2, Full coilover susp,23/19 sways,Bilstiens,KLA Strut Brace,Roll Bar,Test Pipe,BBS RS, Willwood BBK

25% of a '87 944 Chumpcar http://straightpipe.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=2454

'79 924 Sebring Edition(Sitting)
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