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John Brown
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 903
Location: Leesburg VA
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 Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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Been watching this for a bit and finally had to ask:
1) Just how high are you fella's intending to rev?
2) What exactly is the weight of the stock follower including adjusting screw vs the weight of the after-market follower with shim?
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John
80 931 - #931 44Cup
99 Escalade - tows track cars
gone but not forgotten: original 924.org car - 82 |
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ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15548
Location: Spring Lake MI
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| bass gt wrote: | When i say lighter, i really mean lighter. From memoery, the weight of 2 stock followers is equivalent to all 8 piper followers. There really is a noticable difference in the engine with these fitted.
3) Better performing, due to the weight issue. |
I can't speak empirically, but that's a good indication.
I'm not planning to rev much past stock limit of 6500. but I do like the idea of a lighter valve train.
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erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made |
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bass gt
Joined: 02 Dec 2004
Posts: 971
Location: Johannesburg for now!!
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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Dan,
Sadly, I'm not in the UK at the moment. If i were, i could have given you the weight of a follower, as i have a spare set. But the comparative weight is significant. If you contact Piper, they might be able to give you a weight on their followers.
But this was one of the first mods i did way back. The bottom end was stock, but this did make a noticeable difference.
Steve
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Front Wheel Drive is the Devil's work. |
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Martijnus
Joined: 29 Dec 2006
Posts: 2019
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:03 am Post subject: |
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I'll measure the lifters at my work and try to see if there are compatible lifters which are available, for the people who don't like the screws but aren't concerned about the weight and don't want to pay too much for the custom lightweight ones.
If I find something (can take some time...) you can go shimstyle if you like the easy way.
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"Rule: Turbo's make torque, and torque makes fun." (C. Bell)
924 "50-jahre", 1981.
MSII/extra, LPG, ITB's, 5lug.
To be turbo'ed in a while.
Killed her at the Nurburgring, Porscheless at the moment  |
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Min
Joined: 04 Nov 2002
Posts: 2368
Location: Vernon, British Columbia, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:10 am Post subject: |
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| John Brown wrote: | | 1) Just how high are you fella's intending to rev? |
Lightweight valve train also effects how quickly your motor revs, its not just about getting it to rev higher, its about getting to your limits more quickly.
I don't plan on reving it past 7k
| John Brown wrote: | | 2) What exactly is the weight of the stock follower including adjusting screw vs the weight of the after-market follower with shim? |
I can dig this up if your realllllly interested. Since I have both.
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Custom means it didn't come from a box.
1980 n/a with EDIS and Megasquirt II Injection. 7 different colors and counting. |
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Rasta Monsta
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11723
Location: PacNW
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:36 am Post subject: |
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80.0 grams, without screw.
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- WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3
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John Brown
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 903
Location: Leesburg VA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:08 am Post subject: |
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| Min wrote: | | John Brown wrote: | | 1) Just how high are you fella's intending to rev? |
Lightweight valve train also effects how quickly your motor revs, its not just about getting it to rev higher, its about getting to your limits more quickly.
I don't plan on reving it past 7k
| John Brown wrote: | | 2) What exactly is the weight of the stock follower including adjusting screw vs the weight of the after-market follower with shim? |
I can dig this up if your realllllly interested. Since I have both. |
I'm interested in learning whether it's a cost effective approach to a measurable improvement. Also taking into account the increasing difficulty of sourcing stock followers. My suspicion is that it is neither cost effective nor measurable (at least within the context of the cost). But it'd be great to be wrong on this one.
On the other hand, I just put a flywheel on a brake lathe (it's easier than setting it up on a lathe) and took several sets of followers worth of mass off a major rotating component. The rotating stuff has to be balanced anyway; so now it'l take a couple of spins extra. Just guessing, but I suspect you would absolutely notice the reduction of approximately 2722 grams.
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John
80 931 - #931 44Cup
99 Escalade - tows track cars
gone but not forgotten: original 924.org car - 82 |
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Rasta Monsta
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11723
Location: PacNW
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| John Brown wrote: | | Also taking into account the increasing difficulty of sourcing stock followers. |
Porsche AG has 1000+ warehoused in Deutschland.
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Toofah King Bad
- WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3
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ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15548
Location: Spring Lake MI
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:06 am Post subject: |
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I challenged Piper today on delivery time. They insisted it would only take 1 week to produce, plus two days for shipping.
| John Brown wrote: | | I'm interested in learning whether it's a cost effective approach to a measurable improvement. |
As for cost effectiveness, if we had ten participants, these would be less than a stock set. A set of stock followers costs in the range of $40+ per follower, or in the vicinity of $320+ for a complete set. If we have 5 participants (at this point, we only need two more participants), the cost for the custom followers is just slightly more than stock. Considering the price for most custom components on these cars, that seems pretty cost effective to me, especially considering the benefits.
Measurable? Don't know how to quantify it other than to say I believe Steve when he indicates the weight to be in the range of 1/4 that of a stock set. How that translates to power & drivability would be tough to quantify. But as I said before, if it's good enough for Steve, it's good enough for my build.
Admittedly, this may not be the route to go for a stock build. But I'm not building a stock motor, not by a long shot. For about 1.5% of the total budget for my car, it's worth it to me to spend $320-$400 to build the best motor possible. Also, part of my criteria is to invest now in anything that must be done or is easier done with the motor out of the car. Granted, I could pull the cam and followers later, BUT, I intend to have the followers fitted when the head is out at Eurorace, so that means do it now, which means invest in the lifters now.
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erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made |
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Rasta Monsta
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11723
Location: PacNW
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| ideola wrote: | | A set of stock followers costs in the range of $40+ per follower, or in the vicinity of $320+ for a complete set. |
That is in the vicinity of 50% of list.
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Toofah King Bad
- WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3
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PORSCHEV
Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 1901
Location: Cedar Lake Nova Scotia, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:20 am Post subject: |
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I know this is a bit O/T , after inspecting my new Piper cam with the longer duration. It would only make sense that this type of cam would be much more gentle to the surface of the followers compared the the stock cam that has a quick sharp lobe.
Point being if you were going to bite the bullet and get a shimmed style cam follower it would be money well invested to get a performance cam.
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1976 924
5 lug conversion, 17'C2 wheels,custom body work,327 vette engine.
1978-#53 "D" track racer. |
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Jonus
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 35
Location: Grand Forks, BC
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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Here is a shot of the solid lifter from the bottom side. It weighs 58 grams.
The shims weight about 2.875 grams. All 8 total ~23 grams.
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Min
Joined: 04 Nov 2002
Posts: 2368
Location: Vernon, British Columbia, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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Looked around for some stock lifter prices to get some of those 1000's in germany....
Cam Follower 74.91 paragon products
Cam Follower 82.95 www.autohausaz.com
ebs needed you to get a qoute, and pelican didn't list any that I could find.
Also, when you do these cam followers you should replace all the screws if your doing things properly, those are 20 dollars each. Last time I priced them out. so, at nearly 100 dollars each, I'll pass thanks. Regardless of the 'performance' I may get.
Min
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Custom means it didn't come from a box.
1980 n/a with EDIS and Megasquirt II Injection. 7 different colors and counting. |
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tuurbo
Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 1446
Location: East Windsor, New Jersey
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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This is a tough one - it's a sensible buy but it's a non trivial one too...hmmm...  |
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Rasta Monsta
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11723
Location: PacNW
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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Every spring there is a "PCA Appreciation Day" at my dealer with deep discounts, and I got the lifters for $65 each. Still not pocket change, but OK. I am anticipating a new cam at some point, and didn't want to run it without fresh lifters.
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Toofah King Bad
- WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3
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