Show full size 924Board.org
Discussion Forum of 924.org
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
 Technical FAQ924 FAQ (Technical)   Technical924 Technical Section   Jump to 924.org924.org   Jump to PCA 924 Registry924 Registry

Group Buy: Solid Lifter Upgrade
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    924Board.org Forum Index -> General Discussions
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
John Brown  



Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 903
Location: Leesburg VA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been watching this for a bit and finally had to ask:

1) Just how high are you fella's intending to rev?

2) What exactly is the weight of the stock follower including adjusting screw vs the weight of the after-market follower with shim?
_________________
John
80 931 - #931 44Cup
99 Escalade - tows track cars
gone but not forgotten: original 924.org car - 82
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15506
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bass gt wrote:
When i say lighter, i really mean lighter. From memoery, the weight of 2 stock followers is equivalent to all 8 piper followers. There really is a noticable difference in the engine with these fitted.
3) Better performing, due to the weight issue.

I can't speak empirically, but that's a good indication.

I'm not planning to rev much past stock limit of 6500. but I do like the idea of a lighter valve train.
_________________
75 Fiat X1/9 | 80 US 928 | 80 US 931 '941' | 78 D-Prod Replica | 78 Poli-Form
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bass gt  



Joined: 02 Dec 2004
Posts: 971
Location: Johannesburg for now!!

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan,

Sadly, I'm not in the UK at the moment. If i were, i could have given you the weight of a follower, as i have a spare set. But the comparative weight is significant. If you contact Piper, they might be able to give you a weight on their followers.
But this was one of the first mods i did way back. The bottom end was stock, but this did make a noticeable difference.

Steve
_________________
Front Wheel Drive is the Devil's work.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Martijnus  



Joined: 29 Dec 2006
Posts: 2019
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll measure the lifters at my work and try to see if there are compatible lifters which are available, for the people who don't like the screws but aren't concerned about the weight and don't want to pay too much for the custom lightweight ones.
If I find something (can take some time...) you can go shimstyle if you like the easy way.
_________________
"Rule: Turbo's make torque, and torque makes fun." (C. Bell)

924 "50-jahre", 1981.
MSII/extra, LPG, ITB's, 5lug.
To be turbo'ed in a while.
Killed her at the Nurburgring, Porscheless at the moment
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
Min  



Joined: 04 Nov 2002
Posts: 2368
Location: Vernon, British Columbia, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Brown wrote:
1) Just how high are you fella's intending to rev?


Lightweight valve train also effects how quickly your motor revs, its not just about getting it to rev higher, its about getting to your limits more quickly.

I don't plan on reving it past 7k

John Brown wrote:
2) What exactly is the weight of the stock follower including adjusting screw vs the weight of the after-market follower with shim?


I can dig this up if your realllllly interested. Since I have both.
_________________
Custom means it didn't come from a box.
1980 n/a with EDIS and Megasquirt II Injection. 7 different colors and counting.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Rasta Monsta  



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11380
Location: PacNW

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

80.0 grams, without screw.


_________________
Toofah King Bad

  • Red (1987 924S) - Pro44/Spec944
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
John Brown  



Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 903
Location: Leesburg VA

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Min wrote:
John Brown wrote:
1) Just how high are you fella's intending to rev?


Lightweight valve train also effects how quickly your motor revs, its not just about getting it to rev higher, its about getting to your limits more quickly.

I don't plan on reving it past 7k

John Brown wrote:
2) What exactly is the weight of the stock follower including adjusting screw vs the weight of the after-market follower with shim?


I can dig this up if your realllllly interested. Since I have both.


I'm interested in learning whether it's a cost effective approach to a measurable improvement. Also taking into account the increasing difficulty of sourcing stock followers. My suspicion is that it is neither cost effective nor measurable (at least within the context of the cost). But it'd be great to be wrong on this one.

On the other hand, I just put a flywheel on a brake lathe (it's easier than setting it up on a lathe) and took several sets of followers worth of mass off a major rotating component. The rotating stuff has to be balanced anyway; so now it'l take a couple of spins extra. Just guessing, but I suspect you would absolutely notice the reduction of approximately 2722 grams.
_________________
John
80 931 - #931 44Cup
99 Escalade - tows track cars
gone but not forgotten: original 924.org car - 82
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Rasta Monsta  



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11380
Location: PacNW

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Brown wrote:
Also taking into account the increasing difficulty of sourcing stock followers.


Porsche AG has 1000+ warehoused in Deutschland.
_________________
Toofah King Bad

  • Red (1987 924S) - Pro44/Spec944
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15506
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I challenged Piper today on delivery time. They insisted it would only take 1 week to produce, plus two days for shipping.

John Brown wrote:
I'm interested in learning whether it's a cost effective approach to a measurable improvement.

As for cost effectiveness, if we had ten participants, these would be less than a stock set. A set of stock followers costs in the range of $40+ per follower, or in the vicinity of $320+ for a complete set. If we have 5 participants (at this point, we only need two more participants), the cost for the custom followers is just slightly more than stock. Considering the price for most custom components on these cars, that seems pretty cost effective to me, especially considering the benefits.

Measurable? Don't know how to quantify it other than to say I believe Steve when he indicates the weight to be in the range of 1/4 that of a stock set. How that translates to power & drivability would be tough to quantify. But as I said before, if it's good enough for Steve, it's good enough for my build.

Admittedly, this may not be the route to go for a stock build. But I'm not building a stock motor, not by a long shot. For about 1.5% of the total budget for my car, it's worth it to me to spend $320-$400 to build the best motor possible. Also, part of my criteria is to invest now in anything that must be done or is easier done with the motor out of the car. Granted, I could pull the cam and followers later, BUT, I intend to have the followers fitted when the head is out at Eurorace, so that means do it now, which means invest in the lifters now.
_________________
75 Fiat X1/9 | 80 US 928 | 80 US 931 '941' | 78 D-Prod Replica | 78 Poli-Form
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rasta Monsta  



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11380
Location: PacNW

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ideola wrote:
A set of stock followers costs in the range of $40+ per follower, or in the vicinity of $320+ for a complete set.


That is in the vicinity of 50% of list.
_________________
Toofah King Bad

  • Red (1987 924S) - Pro44/Spec944
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
PORSCHEV  



Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 1901
Location: Cedar Lake Nova Scotia, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know this is a bit O/T , after inspecting my new Piper cam with the longer duration. It would only make sense that this type of cam would be much more gentle to the surface of the followers compared the the stock cam that has a quick sharp lobe.

Point being if you were going to bite the bullet and get a shimmed style cam follower it would be money well invested to get a performance cam.
_________________
1976 924
5 lug conversion, 17'C2 wheels,custom body work,327 vette engine.

1978-#53 "D" track racer.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Jonus  



Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 33
Location: Grand Forks, BC

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a shot of the solid lifter from the bottom side. It weighs 58 grams.

The shims weight about 2.875 grams. All 8 total ~23 grams.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Min  



Joined: 04 Nov 2002
Posts: 2368
Location: Vernon, British Columbia, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looked around for some stock lifter prices to get some of those 1000's in germany....

Cam Follower 74.91 paragon products
Cam Follower 82.95 www.autohausaz.com

ebs needed you to get a qoute, and pelican didn't list any that I could find.

Also, when you do these cam followers you should replace all the screws if your doing things properly, those are 20 dollars each. Last time I priced them out. so, at nearly 100 dollars each, I'll pass thanks. Regardless of the 'performance' I may get.

Min
_________________
Custom means it didn't come from a box.
1980 n/a with EDIS and Megasquirt II Injection. 7 different colors and counting.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
tuurbo  



Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 1446
Location: East Windsor, New Jersey

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a tough one - it's a sensible buy but it's a non trivial one too...hmmm...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rasta Monsta  



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11380
Location: PacNW

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every spring there is a "PCA Appreciation Day" at my dealer with deep discounts, and I got the lifters for $65 each. Still not pocket change, but OK. I am anticipating a new cam at some point, and didn't want to run it without fresh lifters.
_________________
Toofah King Bad

  • Red (1987 924S) - Pro44/Spec944
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    924Board.org Forum Index -> General Discussions All times are GMT + 10 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
Page 4 of 9

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group