Show full size 924Board.org
Discussion Forum of 924.org
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
 Technical FAQ924 FAQ (Technical)   Technical924 Technical Section   Jump to 924.org924.org   Jump to PCA 924 Registry924 Registry

Group Buy: Solid Lifter Upgrade
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    924Board.org Forum Index -> General Discussions
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15366
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:07 am    Post subject: Group Buy: Solid Lifter Upgrade Reply with quote

This is a feeler post to gauge interest in a group buy for solid lifter upgrades for the 924 NA / 931 2.0L.

I am investigating solid lifters for at least one of my motors. I have contacted two companies, both in the UK, that can produce solid lifters. Arrow Precision Engineering have not produced our particular followers before, but they can make them based upon a sample. However, it will take 4+ weeks, and their price was a bit higher. Piper have produced them in the past, but they are currently out of stock. They indicated they could turn them around within a week of ordering. Prices are as follows:
1 x set £199
5 x sets £175
10 x sets £155
Shims are not included. They are available from Piper in 3, 4, 5, & 6mm thickness at a cost of £4 each. (Piper recommended starting with 6mm and machining them down).

Doing the math based on today's exchange rate works out as follows:
Shims = $7.8 each / $62.40 for complete set
1 set = $388.05 per set / $48.50 per lifter + shims
5 sets = $341.25 per set / $42.66 per lifter + shims
10 sets = $302.25 per set / $37.78 per lifter + shims
Note: Per lifter pricing is only provided to give you a comparison to replacement cost for stock item, which seems to be in the neighborhood of $40 per lifter. There will be no partial sets (for hopefully obvious reasons).

There will be shipping charges on top of this that would have to be shared as well. £55 flat shipping cost to get the total shipment to me in Detroit = $107.25, plus whatever cost for me to ship from Detroit to individual buyers. Total shipping cost per buyer goes down with more participants.

Terms of a group buy
If I organize this, here are my terms:
Please post back ASAP with your interest. The cutoff date for committing to a group buy is 5 PM EDT 15 March 2008.
A commitment means verified funds for the TOTAL amount of your order, inclusive of shipping, sent to my paypal account.
Those funds will stay in the account until the order is placed, received & distributed.
Once we've determined interest, I can follow up with all respondents via PM / email with specific logistical details.
_________________
15 981 GTS | 04 955 Turbo | 88 924S SE | 82 931 (x2) | 81 937 | 81 Euro 931 | 81 Weissach | 80 US 928 | 80 US 931 '941' | 80 US 931 | 80 931 GTR | 79 Sebring | 78 D-Prod (x2) | 78 Poli-Form | 78 Limited Edition | 77 Martini
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Martijnus  



Joined: 29 Dec 2006
Posts: 2020
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

what's the advantage of solid lifters?
the problem in my case is that replacements, if one gets bad, are hard to get.
_________________
"Rule: Turbo's make torque, and torque makes fun." (C. Bell)

924 "50-jahre", 1981.
MSII/extra, LPG, ITB's, 5lug.
To be turbo'ed in a while.
Killed her at the Nurburgring, Porscheless at the moment
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15366
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Advantages: lighter, more durable (due to nitriding), obtainable

I first started down this path because stock lifters are getting harder to come by and I wanted to see if there was a lower cost alternative. The cost ends up being about the same, slightly less in a group buy.

As you point out, if one goes bad, you're up the proverbial creek without a paddle. However, bear in mind, your only other alternative is to source a single lifter new, or find a used one that is in good enough condition to substitute. Unless you're hoarding 924/931 heads from which to scavenge parts, finding a lifter is easier said than done. I've been trying for three weeks to get just one lifter without requiring me to purchase an entire head! No luck yet.

Also, bear in mind, most stock lifters have probably seen well in excess of 100K miles. Unless there was an oiling problem with the cam, the lifters are probably still serviceable. Consequently, I think its reasonable to assume that an aftermarket heat-treated lifter designed for racing will last at least as long as a stock unit. So unless you do something silly, like forget or neglect to change the cam oiler tube elbow, there shouldn't be too many worries about a lifter going bad.
_________________
15 981 GTS | 04 955 Turbo | 88 924S SE | 82 931 (x2) | 81 937 | 81 Euro 931 | 81 Weissach | 80 US 928 | 80 US 931 '941' | 80 US 931 | 80 931 GTR | 79 Sebring | 78 D-Prod (x2) | 78 Poli-Form | 78 Limited Edition | 77 Martini
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Raceboy  



Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 2241
Location: Estonia, Europe

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Count me in.

Though it will be kind of weird to ship them from UK to US and then to Europe again Maybe they will send one set directly to me?
_________________
'83 924 2.5 16v Turbo, 470hp
'82 924S/931 "Gulf" racecar, 330 hp
'67 911 Irish Green hotrod, 2.4S
'78 911 SC 2.5 ss Turbo "Martini"
'84 924, turbocharged, sold.
http://www.facebook.com/vemsporsche
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15366
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raceboy wrote:
Maybe they will send one set directly to me?

Yeah, I'm sure we can sort that out
_________________
15 981 GTS | 04 955 Turbo | 88 924S SE | 82 931 (x2) | 81 937 | 81 Euro 931 | 81 Weissach | 80 US 928 | 80 US 931 '941' | 80 US 931 | 80 931 GTR | 79 Sebring | 78 D-Prod (x2) | 78 Poli-Form | 78 Limited Edition | 77 Martini


Last edited by ideola on Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:56 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tomcooper  



Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 301
Location: Waterloo, Nebraska

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan,

I am in for one set. If all you need is one bucket, let me see if there is a decent on in the 931 head I have. If so it's yours for the shipping.

Tom
_________________
Casper and Big Red, both 1980 NA
Black Bart, 1990 944 S2 Cab
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Rasta Monsta  



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11323
Location: PacNW

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ideola wrote:
I've been trying for three weeks to get just one lifter without requiring me to purchase an entire head! No luck yet.


There are 1000+ warehoused in Germany. And FWIW, the faces of the factory units are coated. Did I mention they are adjustable?



Have fun, probably would consider this if I didn't have a box.
_________________
Toofah King Bad
  • Shaggy (1980 931) - Got Boost?
  • Red (1987 924S) - Pro44/Spec944
  • Weiße Scheiße (1987 924S) - In Progress
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Min  



Joined: 04 Nov 2002
Posts: 2365
Location: Vernon, British Columbia, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are a few reasons I would choose these over stock units, the stock units of course are much easier to adjust, however as time goes on (and as proven by the numerous dead ones I've got laying around) the adjusting screws threads slowly get worn, so when you start replacing stock buckets, you've also gotta start replacing the adjustment screws. The adjustment screws are not cheap. The stock units are also quite heavy in comparison to the piper ones (3 times heavier I believe, I don't have the exact measurements anymore, though I did weight them) Getting new shims is easy, and inexpensive, just means that adjusting the valves will be a little harder. And the stock units in my opinion havn't shown themselves to be that great for longevity (every 924 motor I've opened has at least one heavily damaged lifter, in some cases ... 3-4 heavily damaged lifters, and this wasn't becuase of oil tube, or oil elbow failure either.

I'd be in for a set if I had the extra cash ideola, I need another set for my car. But its going to have to wait.

Min
_________________
Custom means it didn't come from a box.
1980 n/a with EDIS and Megasquirt II Injection. 7 different colors and counting.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15366
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Min, thanks for the input...you answered a few questions I had as well. We'll see where this goes. Sure would be nice if every decision weren't a $300-$400 choice I'm actually delaying my head work until we figure out whether this is going to fly. It's more than I had planned / wanted to spend, BUT, for the weight savings alone, I think it would be worth it. Hopefully, we can find enough others to pull this off.
_________________
15 981 GTS | 04 955 Turbo | 88 924S SE | 82 931 (x2) | 81 937 | 81 Euro 931 | 81 Weissach | 80 US 928 | 80 US 931 '941' | 80 US 931 | 80 931 GTR | 79 Sebring | 78 D-Prod (x2) | 78 Poli-Form | 78 Limited Edition | 77 Martini
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PORSCHEV  



Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 1911
Location: Cedar Lake Nova Scotia, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You just have to keep your eyes open in the wanted section for the stock cam followers. I just picked up 4 @ $23.00 shipped to my door. The idea of having to pull the darn cam completely out to put a shim in isn't my idea of fun.
_________________
1976 924
5 lug conversion, 17'C2 wheels,custom body work,327 vette engine.

1978-#53 "D" track racer.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15366
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PORSCHEV wrote:
I just picked up 4 @ $23.00 shipped to my door.

So that's who beat me to it!!!!

Bear in mind, these may not be the trick for the average street car, or for the occasional DIY mechanic. These will be going into my race car, and I suspect the same is true for Raceboy and Tom.

I may pick up a 2nd set just to have spares. Not sure they would be warranted on a stock setup, but for anything modified, seems like the way to go. I read some other threads here about adjusting, and IIRC, the secondary adjustment typically is not required with solid lifters. I could be wrong, but I believe that's what I read.
_________________
15 981 GTS | 04 955 Turbo | 88 924S SE | 82 931 (x2) | 81 937 | 81 Euro 931 | 81 Weissach | 80 US 928 | 80 US 931 '941' | 80 US 931 | 80 931 GTR | 79 Sebring | 78 D-Prod (x2) | 78 Poli-Form | 78 Limited Edition | 77 Martini
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 7514
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i want a set too but its going to have to wait for now.
_________________
red 924 and not red 924
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Martijnus  



Joined: 29 Dec 2006
Posts: 2020
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I get the advantages... but it's still a lot of money for me.
The thing I'm worried about is how to obtain shims.
I can't machine them myself so working on the car, especially with these things which are more common than replacing pistons, is going to be nasty.

If I could get various shims, like for any other car, it would be an easier choice.
At work we have shitloads of shims for various brands... if the companies you mentioned could machine buckets which used like stock VW/Audi shims, you could swap them at you local dealer, instead of machining them...which could never give you a thicker shim.

so that's a little problem for me...it's too exotic and I can't get replacement parts around the corner...which makes it more expensive everytime.... valve adjusting isn't something you do every week, but when I modify stuff, I always try to keep it as universal as possible...
_________________
"Rule: Turbo's make torque, and torque makes fun." (C. Bell)

924 "50-jahre", 1981.
MSII/extra, LPG, ITB's, 5lug.
To be turbo'ed in a while.
Killed her at the Nurburgring, Porscheless at the moment
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
Min  



Joined: 04 Nov 2002
Posts: 2365
Location: Vernon, British Columbia, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martijnus wrote:
Ok, I get the advantages... but it's still a lot of money for me.
The thing I'm worried about is how to obtain shims.


The shims are easily obtainable. We got some from the local parts store.

Min
_________________
Custom means it didn't come from a box.
1980 n/a with EDIS and Megasquirt II Injection. 7 different colors and counting.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Martijnus  



Joined: 29 Dec 2006
Posts: 2020
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Min wrote:
Martijnus wrote:
Ok, I get the advantages... but it's still a lot of money for me.
The thing I'm worried about is how to obtain shims.


The shims are easily obtainable. We got some from the local parts store.

Min


hmm...interesting

so any idea what the sizes will be? at work we've got sizes around 30mm diameter (depending on the lifter of course) with thicknesses around 3-5mm

I guess if you can get the shims from the local parts store... I can too overhere
_________________
"Rule: Turbo's make torque, and torque makes fun." (C. Bell)

924 "50-jahre", 1981.
MSII/extra, LPG, ITB's, 5lug.
To be turbo'ed in a while.
Killed her at the Nurburgring, Porscheless at the moment
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    924Board.org Forum Index -> General Discussions All times are GMT + 10 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
Page 1 of 9

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group