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Uprating the handling
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Mark CSC  
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2001 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Took the 924 for a spirted drive on Sunday with a few Subaru Impreza Turbo's and a Mitubishi EVO 6. I was leading the pack (I had co driver) accross 85 miles of twisty country roads. In terms of speed the car performed pretty well and I didn't feel I was holding the group up at all. BUT when pushing on at that speed the car was all over the place. Body roll, jumping snd skiping over bumps, naff all grip when cornering hard etc

I know I'm comparing my car to tubo charged rally reps who would have left me for dead if they wanted to, there must be some way to improve the handling especially at the rear of the car.

What mods have people done and what have the results been??

Thanks

Mark

PS

Here is one of the pics of the day, my car is hidding at the back out of shot

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Peter_in_AU  



Joined: 29 Jul 2001
Posts: 2742
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2001 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

don't feel too bad about not running rings around the scubies. Remember you're in a car that's probably older that half the guys on this board (OK older than Lars at least).

With the suspension sorted you should stick with them on the corners.

If you really want to nail them in a classic German car a pre-'83 200+hp Euro Audi Quatro (the real one) should do the trick.

Looking at the photo, if it weren't for the scubie scoop you'd be hard-pressed to work out what the cars were - Mitsubishi, Toyota, Daihatsu or something from Korea.
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eturbo924  
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2001 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For some ideas and tips on suspension upgrades and power increases go to http://www.geocities.com/eturbo924 take the link to 924 power tricks.

Eric
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bacook  
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2001 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WOW!!! What an impressive lineup of cars! If I were to upgrade my 924 or 931 to run with WRXs or EVOs, I'd sell it and buy one of them. We finally got the Subaru Turbo on this side of the ocean, but it's still de-tuned.
I've got an idea! I'll send you the money to buy an EVO VII, you take it apart and mail it to me in the US. If I build the car myself maybe I can get it licensed as a Kit Car.
As for your original question, the best thing you can do to improve handling is to run tighter springs and torsion bars, use fatter sway bars, replace the bushings, and make sure the brakes and suspension are properly adjusted. Your friends are all-wheel drive so you have to compensate with a perfectly balanced and adjusted car.
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Vince Ponz  
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2001 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Streetable car

23mm front sways with Bilstein gas HD shocks
18-22 rear sways with " " " "
250 lbs springs front
Poly bushings
stiff shouldered tires your choice
lower car front and back
This will give you a firm ride and not too uncomfortable. For the track larger front and rears sways, Torsion bar replacement,
adjustable shocks, 16 in wheels and 4 wheels discs if you don't have them already, heavier springs, lighten car by removing parts.
I hope this helps.
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Mike B  
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2001 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Koni sport (yellow) struts/shocks are expensive but WOW...I took a spin in my son's 924 two days ago and it was impressive...He has Dunlop 9000's (225/50-15 rear and 205/55-15 front). I was surprised how firm the ride was and I felt I could take any corner at whatever speed I wanted...The firmer suspension and tires made an incredible difference...
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larso  
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2001 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yah 924's roll.

the early 924's with the S package is the only 924 to have, if people wanna brag about handling of a porsche, with macpherson struts, it has to be a 911, or an S of the front engine series.
The stock 924s roll a lot, but the S edition of the 931 handles better than 85 911s on paper and subjectively.

[ This Message was edited by: larso on 2001-08-29 10:41 ]
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924RACR  



Joined: 29 Jul 2001
Posts: 8322
Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2001 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I think a lack of swaybars and good shocks is your biggest issue... the car shouldn't skip like you describe, unless you've got worn-out dampers...

_________________
Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 ITB racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype
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Mark CSC  
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2001 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vaughan

The car has newish Sachs shocks (2000 miles old) but no swaybars (we call them anti-roll bars over here BTW).
I think I'll start by getting some.

Thanks for bthe rest of the comments

Mark

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kevrl  
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2001 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Mark,

For what it's worth, my opinion is that on a smooth road with the mods described above (anti-roll bars, larger wheels/ tyres + shocks ....etc) the 931 will give the scooby's a hard time, BUT as soon as the road gets bumpy or rippled, or anywhere less than super smooth (roads are crap here in UK), all the scooby's will pull away in to the distance

I think its something called 'Bump Steer', scooby's are less affected by it .

Good luck with the mods,

Kevin
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Rick MacLaren  
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2001 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, but the trick is to take them on YOUR turf, not to try to beat them on THEIR turf. So take them on the highway. I just can't see a souped up 931 losing to a Scooby if the 931 has been lightened and has 190+ hp. The US Scooby models are 168 HP - Turbo magazine. I think these cars are HIGHLY overrated and marketed as 'supercars'...

Didn't the WRX LOSE to a Corolla? Let's see:

The WRX 'winning streak' included 1995, 1996 and 1997 - during these years Richard Burns and Juha Kankkunen were the drivers - two of the winningest drivers on the rally circuit. However, Mitsibushi, a Toyota Corolla and a Peugeot won the remaining years 1998 through 2000, defeating Subaru. Further, the particular WRX's raced in the rally are not the same as the street car, and the street car is not nearly the much hyped 340 HP $50,000 USD WRX that graces the streets of Japan - whereas the rally and Japan models have an intercooler beneath the car at the front of the engine, the street version has an "interwarmer" at the top of the engine ready to catch warm air, a non-sequential H patterned gearbox, lesser shocks, springs, wheels - a different beast entirely.
Comments and flames welcomed.

Rick
PS: Who said the Porsche 931 was a rally car? It ain't. Take 'em on your own turf.

World Championship
Manufacturers World Championship
2000 Peugeot (206 WRC)
1999 Toyota (Corolla WRC)
1998 Mitsubishi (Lancer Evolution V)
1997 Subaru (Impreza WRC)
1996 Subaru (Impreza)
1995 Subaru (Impreza)
1994 Toyota (Celica GT4)
1993 Toyota (Celica GT4)
1992 Lancia (Integrale Evoluzione)
1991 Lancia (Integrale 16V)
1990 Lancia (Integrale 16V)
1989 Lancia (Integrale 8V)
1988 Lancia (Integrale 8V)
1987 Lancia (Delta 4WD)
1986 Peugeot (205 Turbo 16)
1985 Peugeot (205 Turbo 16)
1984 Audi (Quattro)
1983 Lancia (037)
1982 Audi (Quattro)
1981 Talbot (Sunbeam Lotus)
1980 Fiat (131 Abarth)
1979 Ford (Escort RS)
1978 Fiat (131 Abarth)
1977 Fiat (131 Abarth)
1976 Lancia (Stratos)
1975 Lancia (Stratos)
1974 Lancia (Stratos)
1973 Alpine Renault (A110)
1972 Lancia*
1971 Alpine-Renault*
1970 Porsche*
1969 Ford Europe*
1968 Ford GB*

2000 World Rally Championship for Drivers

Driver Car Points

1. Marcus Grönholm FI Peugeot 206 WRC 65
2. Richard Burns UK Subaru Impreza 60
3. Carlos Sainz ES Ford Focus WRC 46
4. Colin McRae UK Ford Focus WRC 43
5. Tommi Mäkinen FI Mitsubishi Lancer 36
6. François Delecour FR Peugeot 206 WRC 24
7. Gilles Panizzi FR Peugeot 206 WRC 21
8. Juha Kankkunen FI Subaru Impreza 20
9. Harri Rovanpera FI Toyota Corolla 7
10. Petter Solberg NO Ford Focus WRC 6
11. Kenneth Eriksson SE Hyundai Accent WRC 5
12. Didier Auriol FR Seat Cordoba WRC 4
-. Freddy Loix BE Mitsubishi Lancer 4
-. Toshihiro Arai JP Subaru Impreza 4
-. Toni Gardemeister FI Seat Cordoba WRC 4
16. Thomas Radstöm SE Toyota Corolla WRC 3
-. Bruno Thiry BE Toyota Corolla WRC 2
-. Armin Schwarz DE Skoda Octavia WRC 2
-. Sebastian Lindholm FI Peugeot 206 WRC 2
-. Tapio Laukkanen FI Ford Focus WRC 2
21. Piero Liatti IT Ford Focus WRC 1
-. Abdullah Bakhashab SA Toyota Corolla WRC 1
-. Possum Bourne AU Subaru Impreza 1
-. Markko Martin EE Toyota Corolla 1
24. Philippe Bugalski FR Citroën Xsara T4 0
-. Jesus Puras ES Subaru Impreza 0
-. Andrea Aghini IT Toyota Corolla 0
-. Leonidas Kirkos GR Ford Escort WRC 0
-. Volkan Isik TR Toyota Corolla 0



1999 World Rally Championship for Drivers

Driver Car P.

1. Tommi Mäkinen FI Mitsubishi Lancer 62
2. Richard Burns UK Subaru Impreza 55
3. Didier Auriol FR Toyota Corolla 52
4. Carlos Sainz ES Toyota Corolla 44
-. Juha Kankkunen FI Subaru Impreza 44
6. Colin McRae UK Ford Focus WRC 23
7. Philippe Bugalski FR Citroën Xsara 20
8. Freddy Loix BE Mitsubishi Lancer 14
9. Harri Rovanpera FI Seat Cordoba WRC 10
10.Jesus Puras ES Citroën Xsara 6
-. Toni Gardemeister FI Seat Cordoba WRC 6
-. Gilles Panizzi FR Peugeot 206 WRC 6
-. Thomas Rädström FI Ford Focus WRC 6
-. Bruno Thiry BE Skoda Octavia WRC 6
15.Markus Grönholm SE Peugeot 206 WRC 5
16.François Delecour FR Peugeot 206 WRC 3
-. Ian Duncan KE Toyota Corolla 3
18.Petter Solberg NO Ford Focus WRC 2
-. Andrea Aghini IT Toyota Corolla 2
-. Markko Martin EE Toyota Corolla 2
-. Possum Bourne AU Subaru Impreza 2
22.Piero Liatti IT Seat Cordoba WRC 1
-. Leonidas Kirkos GR Ford Escort WRC 1
-. Volkan Isik TR Toyota Corolla 1


FIA World Rally Championship for Drivers

Position Driver Country Car Points
1. Tommi Makinen Finland Mitsubishi 20
2. Carlos Sainz Spain Ford 16
3. Harri Rovanpera Finland Peugeot 10
4. Francois Delecour France Ford 8
5. Thomas Radstrom Sweden Mitsubishi 6
6. Toni Gardemeister Finland Peugeot 5
7. Marcus Gronholm Finland Peugeot 3
= Armin Schwarz Germany Skoda 3
= Richard Burns British Subaru 3
10. Freddy Loix Belgium Mitsubishi 1
= Petter Solberg Norway Subaru 1
= Alister McRae British Hyundai 1

FIA WRC for Manufacturers

Pos. Team/Engine Pts.

1 Ford 50
2 Mitsubishi 47
3 Subaru 22
4 Peugeot 20
5 Hyundai 10

FIA Teams Cup

Pos. Team Pts.

1 Toyota Denmark 10
2 Toyota Finland 10
3 David Sutton 6
4 Oman Arab 6
5 Marlboro Ford 4
6 World Rally Hire 4

_________________
1980 Porsche 931 C2H5OH/H2O injected 15 PSI
1979 Porsche 924

[ This Message was edited by: Rick MacLaren on 2001-08-31 02:10 ]
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bacook  
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2001 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Firstly, I really like the term Scooby, but I don't know where it originated or specifically what it is referring to. Can someone please clarify for an i'norant Texan?

Secondly, WRC wins are not the one true gauge of a particular make of car. Prodrive makes the WRC car for Subaru, RalliArt makes the car for Mitsubishi, etc. If we're comparing apples to apples, let's talk about the teams and tuners as well.

Lastly, I took a US spec WRX out for a test drive Monday and was all grins afterwards! it is fast, smooth, comfortable, and tracks as if it's on rails. For a $25K ride, it's the best out there IMO. For a full warranty car that I can lease for $300/mo., I could beat it to hell and not spend a penny repairing the engine or drivetrain. If I put it in a tree the insurance company buys me another!
My dream is that other manufacturers will see there is a market for high performance compact sedans in America and we can finally get some good cars here to replace the Ford and GM dinosaurs on the highways.

However, I could also get a 964 for around $25K or 15 931s. It's all relative, I suppose.

_________________
thanks!
bc
'81 924 (red)
'82 931 (silver)
http://members.rennlist.com/bcookt06394

[ This Message was edited by: bacook on 2001-08-31 03:09 ]

[ This Message was edited by: bacook on 2001-08-31 03:12 ]
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larso  
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2001 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

how did that 924 rally gt do in rallies, anyone know?
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Peter_in_AU  



Joined: 29 Jul 2001
Posts: 2742
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2001 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scooby is a fun name for Subaru, usually only applied to the WRX. As in subaru -> scooby doo -> scooby. Most of the WRX owners (down here anyway) refer to their cars as scoobies.
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Mark CSC  
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2001 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey I never said I wanted my car to "beat" a Scooby and it probably wouldn't happen even with a Carrara GT (Ok maybe it would on a track). Just my run pointed out some holes in the cars' handling.

Anyway I like Imprezas and they are bloody quick and handle very, very well. Been in and driven a few (although not the new one)

Richard, go and try one and see what you think. It's not supercar quick, but for the money it's not bad

Bumpsteer explained

http://www.drivingtechniques.co.uk/ShowPage.asp?Activemenu=63&PageID=56


If you want to see what a Scooby can really do you need to get this video http://shop.scoobynet.co.uk/Product.asp?ProductID=155

It is a UK car with about 230bhp at the Nurbergring in Germany. The car overtakes everything. Video is amazing(lots of Porsche too)
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