924Board.org

mrgtturbo · Joined: 06 Jan 2003 Posts: 526 Location: Skowhegan, ME

Please help I’m in a bad spot, I NEED my car on the road as it’s my only source of transportation at this time due to losing my wife and family car. I know its mid-winter and not the best time for a 31 to be on the road –but again I have no choice.

When I parked the car in the fall it was blowing oil into the pressure tube and smoking pretty steadily. I knew I needed to replace or rebuild the turbo at that time. When I was forced to try to put it back on the road again before it’s time. I had the same smoking problem, but now it would run for a few minutes and then shut down –unable to be restarted for a few hours.

I have since replaced the turbo and it runs quite strong –with no smoke. However, it’s still shutting down after being run for a few minutes. Doesn’t matter if it’s being driven or left at idle. I really need to figure this issue out fast for my son and I, we live outside of town and I’m now on foot. The winter here in, Maine has been BRUTAL this year and without my car I have no means to fix any of the mess we’ve been left in.

That said, I have very little money to invest at this time, and need to spend wisely. Please help me figure out what the actual problem is.

Aaron
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81' 931

emoore924 · Joined: 13 Apr 2004 Posts: 2822

Well, sounds like it runs, so you have compression. You'll be missing either fuel or spark when it fails.

So a little more about the failure mode-- does it just suddenly shut off or does it die slowly, sputtering and coughing as it goes?

I'd say have a spare plug ready. When it dies the next time, quick, pull the plug wire off #1, stick the spare plug in it, ground it to the head and have someone crank. If you have spark, its fuel. If no spark, well, you have no spark. You can take the diag from there.

I'm betting fuel. Bag fuel pump. Clogged filter. Bad CIS distrubutor or WUR.

Let us know what happens.

ideola · Joined: 01 Oct 2004 Posts: 15550 Location: Spring Lake MI

Your car is an S2, so you may be having issues with the DITC system. I've seen some crazy stuff with DITC cars, including one where water was leaking through one of the factory welds in the bulkhead directly above the fuse block and right onto the fuel pump relay (FPR). I've seen connectors at the fuse block pushed out the back of the relay holder from the FPR being plugged in an out frequently during diagnostics.

I agree with Ed that it's most likely a fuel or spark problem, the trick is to isolate which, and then figure out why.

Some other possibilities:
Fuel Pump Relay can cause all kinds of problems on DITC car. Corrosion on the terminals, terminals coming loose from the relay holder, relay heating up and closing the circuit, relay starting to fail in general, etc. You can fairly easily eliminate the FPR as the culprit by TEMPORARILY jumpering pins 30 and 87 at the relay holder. This will cause the fuel pump to run constantly, so it is by no means a fix and unsafe to operate on the road, but you can at least determine if the car will stay running with the jumper in place. If it does, good chance the FPR is your culprit. It will also force you to carefully inspect the relay holder while you're under there.

Once you've eliminated FPR as a culprit, the very next thing I would do is confirm that the DITC connections are working correctly. See this thread: http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=28790 and look for the section on DITC.

Once you've confirmed that the DITC harness is dry and properly seated, you should go on with the rest of the diagnostics.

This is no time to haphazardly guess. Start at the top of the diagnostic listed in the aforementioned thread, and be methodical. Take notes. Don't skip any tests, even if you think you know something is working. You should assume that nothing is working the way you think it is. Use the diagnostic to methodically rule out potential culprits one by one.

Hope this helps.
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erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made

Rasta Monsta · Joined: 12 Jul 2006 Posts: 11733 Location: PacNW

Sounds like its starting on the CCV but has inadequate cold start enrichment to stay running. . .just another idea. I'd check fuel pressures, and smoke the intake for vacuum leaks.
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Toofah King Bad

WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3

mrgtturbo · Joined: 06 Jan 2003 Posts: 526 Location: Skowhegan, ME

Thank you, everyone. Though I was TRULY hoping to work on her today -life had other plans for me. However, I do not foresee anything holding me back from putting time in to sorting this issue tomorrow.

I'll be sure to check back in after I do.
Many thanks to all who have responded.

Aaron
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81' 931

mrgtturbo · Joined: 06 Jan 2003 Posts: 526 Location: Skowhegan, ME

Been getting help from Dan and Vaughan -much thanks.

Ed, the car just shuts down -without complaint. It's like, "I'm done."

So far it's been discovered that once stalling the spark is gone. The DITC connections at this point seem clean and fine, as does the fuel pump. Tomorrow it's in to the steering Column and then searching for grounds.

If anyone has or could link me to a 'map' of ground locations that would be wonderful and greatly appreciated -as I really do not know where I'm looking yet. Though I was told there is a fairly large cluster up under the dash (which sounds to be interesting). :/
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81' 931

emoore924 · Joined: 13 Apr 2004 Posts: 2822

Could it be simple/lucky as a bad ignition switch?

mrgtturbo · Joined: 06 Jan 2003 Posts: 526 Location: Skowhegan, ME

I just found there to be a small crack in the bottom of the plastic in the switch. Is it possible this is the cause?

*Edit. I posted a photo on FB.
Aaron Bonneau
Maine

You'd know my profile if you saw it. LOL
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81' 931

ideola · Joined: 01 Oct 2004 Posts: 15550 Location: Spring Lake MI

Yes, common failure. Every car I've hsf required that switch to be replaced.
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erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made

mrgtturbo · Joined: 06 Jan 2003 Posts: 526 Location: Skowhegan, ME

hsf?
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81' 931

leadfoot · Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:24 am Post subject:

had similar failures...
sounds like the culprit,
Stu
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1981 ROW 924 Turbo -
carbon fiber GT mish mash
LS1 conversion in progress...

mrgtturbo · Joined: 06 Jan 2003 Posts: 526 Location: Skowhegan, ME

Thank you.

Unfortunately it wasn't. Though after noticing at a little brown at the base of the crack I decided to investigate further -and it came apart in a 1/2 dozen or more pieces. :/ Oh-well, I had already decided it needed to be replaced. But we confirmed this was not the actual problem after jumping the ignition.

Still stumped.
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81' 931

SlayerSST · Joined: 21 Sep 2010 Posts: 212

If your fuel pump relay is stuck or broken it will cause the no spark problem.

Remove it, give it a few taps on its side and re-install.

You can hear a click from the relay when the key is put on the start position.

You can also feel the relay click if you put your hand over it.

Clbmkr1 · Joined: 21 Jul 2010 Posts: 76 Location: Wind Point, Wi.

Aaron,

I had the same issue with 1980 when I bought it. It would always start, but periodically die. It sometimes would start within minutes. Other times, after several hours I would have it towed home. The it would start.
Turned out to be a short in the distributor. I bought a new one and have had no issues in three years.
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Jim Baldwin
1980 931
2013 Lincoln MKZ
2013 Ford Escape

ideola · Joined: 01 Oct 2004 Posts: 15550 Location: Spring Lake MI