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help & hints for a newbie
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Elektrobank  



Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Posts: 142
Location: Pozzuoli,Napoli, Italy

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:13 am    Post subject: help & hints for a newbie Reply with quote

Hi all my name is Gianluca, this is my first post in this forum...
i live in Napoli, italy and i'm an happy owner of a 1980 931 turbo
during the 2006 i fixed a lot of problem on my car and now it's time to tune up a little bit the power and the handling...

the car has stiffer struts and springs has no power steer and i'm searching for a quick rack and pinion kit... where i can find it?

i'd like to boost up the engine and have some extra power but i need an intercooler kit or something to cool down the hot air, i saw lots of modification but i need something simple and that is around a straight swap.... i have a little prcatice with welder and tools like and a garage where i can work easily in it... so any comment will be very helpful

i drive my car daily so i don't want to build up a group B engine and the reliability is the most important thing to preserve

i'd like to shere some pics of my car with the forum but i really don't know how to do who can do this for me??

Thanks in advance to all
Gianluca
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Min  



Joined: 04 Nov 2002
Posts: 2368
Location: Vernon, British Columbia, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:16 am    Post subject: Re: help & hints for a newbie Reply with quote

Elektrobank wrote:
i'd like to boost up the engine and have some extra power but i need an intercooler kit or something to cool down the hot air, i saw lots of modification but i need something simple and that is around a straight swap.... i have a little prcatice with welder and tools like and a garage where i can work easily in it... so any comment will be very helpful


If you don't mind filling the tank, water injection would probably be simplier than doing a intercooler installation.

Min
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Elektrobank  



Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Posts: 142
Location: Pozzuoli,Napoli, Italy

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:34 am    Post subject: Re: help & hints for a newbie Reply with quote

Min wrote:


If you don't mind filling the tank, water injection would probably be simplier than doing a intercooler installation.

Min


you mean an air/water cooler?
sorry my english is a little bit rusty
how can i do this kind of conversion? by cutting a piece of tank and put the cooler somewhere in the negine bay?
this is interesting please can you explain?

Thanks
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Min  



Joined: 04 Nov 2002
Posts: 2368
Location: Vernon, British Columbia, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:48 am    Post subject: Re: help & hints for a newbie Reply with quote

Elektrobank wrote:
you mean an air/water cooler?
sorry my english is a little bit rusty
how can i do this kind of conversion? by cutting a piece of tank and put the cooler somewhere in the negine bay?
this is interesting please can you explain?


Umm, I was refering to water injection, you inject a 50/50 mix of water/methonal into your airstream in a fine mist, it gets combusted by your engine, this cools the motor and provides extra fuel. Allowing you to safely run more boost without cuasing problems.

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/waterinjection.html

Min
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Elektrobank  



Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Posts: 142
Location: Pozzuoli,Napoli, Italy

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:20 am    Post subject: Re: help & hints for a newbie Reply with quote

Min wrote:

Umm, I was refering to water injection, you inject a 50/50 mix of water/methonal into your airstream in a fine mist, it gets combusted by your engine, this cools the motor and provides extra fuel. Allowing you to safely run more boost without cuasing problems.

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/waterinjection.html

Min


a lot of interesting info's but i'm not really sure about all this, here in italy nobody will be able to do a conversion like this and i have not enough time for this it is not so easy conversion...
i'd like to adapt only an intercooler and boost controller to reach around 190hp safely (i think)
is this possible?
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MotoMorini 501
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Paul  



Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 9491
Location: Southeast Wisconsin

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The link above has a picture that sounds familar!!!


I Don’t Want To Learn...Just Give Me The Answers!
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Min  



Joined: 04 Nov 2002
Posts: 2368
Location: Vernon, British Columbia, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:36 pm    Post subject: Re: help & hints for a newbie Reply with quote

Elektrobank wrote:

a lot of interesting info's but i'm not really sure about all this, here in italy nobody will be able to do a conversion like this and i have not enough time for this it is not so easy conversion...
i'd like to adapt only an intercooler and boost controller to reach around 190hp safely (i think)
is this possible?


If putting a water nozzle in your airstream and running a line to it is harder than intalling an intercooler, doing all the custom pipe work, etc .... Then I think you may wish to reconsider your direction with this.

water injection: Drill hole in your turbo to throttle body pipe, thread, install nozzle of the appropriate size, run a line to it from a small water pump that feeds from your washer fluid tank....... install a small pressure switch to engage the system ..... dial in your boost, check your water tank frequently.

intercooler: source appropriate intercooler ($$$$) cut sheetmetal to install, may involve removal of the nosepanel (if your installing a 951 intercooler for example) modify sheetmetal for allowing passage of the intercooler piping, figure out a new setup for your airfilter, plumb the intercooler lines into the cis system. Just getting proper clamps for this particular setup would cost a bit (tbolt clamps, last time I bought them they were 7 dollars(canadian dollars) each for good ones)

Water injection is a proven system, it allows you to provide more fuel via the methanol your injecting as well, which makes the car run richer under high boost (read safer) Its easy, and doesn't cost a whole lot.

Some people I talk to on the megasquirt forums also believe that water injection systems are far more predictable in the way they operate becuase they arn't reliant on the ambient temp, and a water injection system won't heatsoak at a stoplight either.

If installing a water injection system is too much to deal with, so is installing a intercooler or any other reasonable performance modification.

Min
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Custom means it didn't come from a box.
1980 n/a with EDIS and Megasquirt II Injection. 7 different colors and counting.
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Elektrobank  



Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Posts: 142
Location: Pozzuoli,Napoli, Italy

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:04 pm    Post subject: Re: help & hints for a newbie Reply with quote

Min wrote:
Elektrobank wrote:

a lot of interesting info's but i'm not really sure about all this, here in italy nobody will be able to do a conversion like this and i have not enough time for this it is not so easy conversion...
i'd like to adapt only an intercooler and boost controller to reach around 190hp safely (i think)
is this possible?


If putting a water nozzle in your airstream and running a line to it is harder than intalling an intercooler, doing all the custom pipe work, etc .... Then I think you may wish to reconsider your direction with this.

water injection: Drill hole in your turbo to throttle body pipe, thread, install nozzle of the appropriate size, run a line to it from a small water pump that feeds from your washer fluid tank....... install a small pressure switch to engage the system ..... dial in your boost, check your water tank frequently.

intercooler: source appropriate intercooler ($$$$) cut sheetmetal to install, may involve removal of the nosepanel (if your installing a 951 intercooler for example) modify sheetmetal for allowing passage of the intercooler piping, figure out a new setup for your airfilter, plumb the intercooler lines into the cis system. Just getting proper clamps for this particular setup would cost a bit (tbolt clamps, last time I bought them they were 7 dollars(canadian dollars) each for good ones)

Water injection is a proven system, it allows you to provide more fuel via the methanol your injecting as well, which makes the car run richer under high boost (read safer) Its easy, and doesn't cost a whole lot.

Some people I talk to on the megasquirt forums also believe that water injection systems are far more predictable in the way they operate becuase they arn't reliant on the ambient temp, and a water injection system won't heatsoak at a stoplight either.

If installing a water injection system is too much to deal with, so is installing a intercooler or any other reasonable performance modification.

Min


it appears to be a simple thing to do and a non intrusive system... is there anyone on the forume here that could share some pictures of this?
how much money will i need to run that kind of conversion?

thanks
_________________
924T Dta inj + sequential LPG
Cosworth
MotoMorini 501
Moto Morini 350 K2
lot of fun but always on foot....
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Min  



Joined: 04 Nov 2002
Posts: 2368
Location: Vernon, British Columbia, Canada

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 4:12 am    Post subject: Re: help & hints for a newbie Reply with quote

Elektrobank wrote:
it appears to be a simple thing to do and a non intrusive system... is there anyone on the forume here that could share some pictures of this?
how much money will i need to run that kind of conversion?

thanks


How much money will depend on were your located and how easily you can source parts. I guess your in italy, I don't know whats availible locally for this sort of thing from them.

In the usa you can get a nozzle that works well and has a fine atomization of the liquid from mcmaster carr for under 10 dollars. Just make sure to size it correctly. You can then obtain a pump for not alot of cash, for example you can pickup a shurflo 150psi water pump for 90 dollars us from devil's own injection. then you can get a hobbes switch for pretty cheap. All you may need besides all that is a 16-21psi(cracking pressure) or so checkvalve so that your motor doesn't suck in water during vaccum conditions. So that stuff plus shipping and some hosing. You could of course spend alot more, but you don't really need to.

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/
http://www.alcohol-injection.com/shurflo-150-psi-pump-p-15.html
http://www.alcohol-injection.com/brass-check-valve-p-64.html

From this point your going to have to do your own research on whats required. Its not a expensive modification, I know someone on the board is running a type of water injection and posted pictures, but I forget who.

Min
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Custom means it didn't come from a box.
1980 n/a with EDIS and Megasquirt II Injection. 7 different colors and counting.
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leadfoot  



Joined: 11 Dec 2002
Posts: 2222
Location: gOLD cOAST Australia

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PM Kenodog, he has a water to air intercooler for sale.
Leadfoot
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9xx  



Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 627
Location: Jarvenpaa, Finland

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Water injection systems in Europe:

www.aquamist.co.uk

http://www.turbotuning.net/e_index.html
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All gone: 931 '82 Alpine White, original option "220" G31 with LSD + 3 x 944
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Elektrobank  



Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Posts: 142
Location: Pozzuoli,Napoli, Italy

PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 10:58 pm    Post subject: Re: help & hints for a newbie Reply with quote

Min wrote:


In the usa you can get a nozzle that works well and has a fine atomization of the liquid from mcmaster carr for under 10 dollars. Just make sure to size it correctly. You can then obtain a pump for not alot of cash, for example you can pickup a shurflo 150psi water pump for 90 dollars us from devil's own injection. then you can get a hobbes switch for pretty cheap. All you may need besides all that is a 16-21psi(cracking pressure) or so checkvalve so that your motor doesn't suck in water during vaccum conditions. So that stuff plus shipping and some hosing. You could of course spend alot more, but you don't really need to.

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/
http://www.alcohol-injection.com/shurflo-150-psi-pump-p-15.html
http://www.alcohol-injection.com/brass-check-valve-p-64.html

From this point your going to have to do your own research on whats required. Its not a expensive modification, I know someone on the board is running a type of water injection and posted pictures, but I forget who.

Min


i saw some universal kit and the price is interesting... it a safe and cheap way to increase horsepower.... but...
how many hp ??
how many fluid will need the engine?
it is an universal kit and i will setup everything myself is there some sort of parameters that i can use as a starting point and then refine the mixture??
i know thata those are stupid questions but it is my first time with a piece of kit like this

Many thanks
_________________
924T Dta inj + sequential LPG
Cosworth
MotoMorini 501
Moto Morini 350 K2
lot of fun but always on foot....
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Min  



Joined: 04 Nov 2002
Posts: 2368
Location: Vernon, British Columbia, Canada

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 1:23 am    Post subject: Re: help & hints for a newbie Reply with quote

Elektrobank wrote:

i saw some universal kit and the price is interesting... it a safe and cheap way to increase horsepower.... but...
how many hp ??
how many fluid will need the engine?
it is an universal kit and i will setup everything myself is there some sort of parameters that i can use as a starting point and then refine the mixture??
i know thata those are stupid questions but it is my first time with a piece of kit like this

Many thanks


http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/waterinjection.html

Gives you the answers to your questions. Your going to need to do your own research from here.

Min
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Custom means it didn't come from a box.
1980 n/a with EDIS and Megasquirt II Injection. 7 different colors and counting.
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Vince Ponz  



Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 3581
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will be the one to tell you to get the car in tip top shape and fix the parts that need fixing. In your part of the country trying to get parts will be a problem especially used parts. After you get the car in the best shape possible then think about putting on a turbo or anything else. You will see that these parts cost money. I doubt you have anyone near to help you with your project. I PM'd you too.
Just some fatherly advice. Ciao
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Elektrobank  



Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Posts: 142
Location: Pozzuoli,Napoli, Italy

PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2007 5:39 am    Post subject: Re: help & hints for a newbie Reply with quote

Min wrote:


http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/waterinjection.html

Gives you the answers to your questions. Your going to need to do your own research from here.

Min


Thanks a lot Min i'll start to do some calculations

and what about a quicker steering manual kit? is there anything that i can swap from other cars or someone that sell that kit?

some years ago i purschesed an LHD kit for my sierra cosworh, i think in USA is called merkur or something like this and i really love it... it is only 2.8 turns from lock to lock... really fantastic!


Thanks in advance
Gianluca
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924T Dta inj + sequential LPG
Cosworth
MotoMorini 501
Moto Morini 350 K2
lot of fun but always on foot....
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