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pez
Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 68
Location: Hong Kong
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 Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 6:00 pm Post subject: Dog teeth |
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I need dog teeth for 1st, 2nd & 3rd for my carrera GT(G31 snailshell). Porsche only sell complete gear sets @ massive cost & then 3rd is no longer available !
Do you know where I can source these?
I've pm'd John & hopefully he can help - but can anyone else also help?
Thanks !!
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CGT #330 - & she's all mine.... |
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Paul
Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 9491
Location: Southeast Wisconsin
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| Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 10:00 am Post subject: |
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Much cheaper to convert to the Audi tranny used in the 944...
_________________
White 87 924S "Ghost"
Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
White 01 986 "Christine"
Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
Owned and repaired 924s since 1977
Porsche: It's not driving, it's therapy. |
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Raceboy
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 2327
Location: Estonia, Europe
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| Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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Paul, it's cheaper but even I would never do it, not to talk about pez with his genuine GT!
And Audi-style gearbox is weaker than G31.
_________________
'83 924 2.6 16v Turbo, 470hp
'67 911 2.4S hotrod
'90 944 S2 Cabriolet
'78 924 Carrera GT replica
'84 928 S, sold
'91 944 S2, sold
'82 924S/931 "Gulf", sold 
'84 924, turbocharged, sold.
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Paul
Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 9491
Location: Southeast Wisconsin
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| Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 10:01 am Post subject: |
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I didn't say to do it, but having spent over $1,500 on mine and knowing it will fail again in a few years, I just wanted to mention the 944 option.
Wonder what it will cost next time (if it can even be done!)
_________________
White 87 924S "Ghost"
Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
White 01 986 "Christine"
Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
Owned and repaired 924s since 1977
Porsche: It's not driving, it's therapy. |
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endwrench
Joined: 07 Dec 2002
Posts: 1631
Location: Victor, Montana
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| Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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I've been looking for just the syncro rings for 3 months!!! I can't imagine finding dogteeth. Good Luck!
Todd
_________________
'79 924NA. Rebuilt 9.5:1, MSDS header, Mega Squirt Injection, MJLJ-EDIS Ignition, 1.6L Whipple Charger and Intercooler, 10lbs Boost, 944 Trans, Custom HD Clutch.
"simsport" said....superchargers are better than turbos its official!.... |
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sequential
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Posts: 500
Location: BANNED
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| Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Raceboy wrote: | Paul, it's cheaper but even I would never do it, not to talk about pez with his genuine GT!
And Audi-style gearbox is weaker than G31. |
Beg to differ , Audi , 951 box is stronger.
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928 gts prototype
baby blue engine block
steam in 1,2,3,4 sometimes
cold star issues while on stands
112 whp with new 4 valve head and MIS 2 |
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Raceboy
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 2327
Location: Estonia, Europe
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| Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| sequential wrote: | | Raceboy wrote: | Paul, it's cheaper but even I would never do it, not to talk about pez with his genuine GT!
And Audi-style gearbox is weaker than G31. |
Beg to differ , Audi , 951 box is stronger. |
Have you pushed both of them to teh limits? Wayne, thre's been arguments soooo many times about it, and on Rennlist couple of guys have even tried them both. Though the syncros are the Achilleus heel of it. But, Audi-type gearbox has it's own Ach. heel, and that's differential.
Eather way, next winter I'm going to have my G31 done (we have one hell of a gearbox builder here). He said he can swap the 930 gearbox parts (dog teeth etc) with little machining to it and have you guys heard of carbon syncros? Anyway, that's what he recommended for it.
_________________
'83 924 2.6 16v Turbo, 470hp
'67 911 2.4S hotrod
'90 944 S2 Cabriolet
'78 924 Carrera GT replica
'84 928 S, sold
'91 944 S2, sold
'82 924S/931 "Gulf", sold
'84 924, turbocharged, sold.
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endwrench
Joined: 07 Dec 2002
Posts: 1631
Location: Victor, Montana
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| Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 5:57 am Post subject: |
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Anybody here think the original finish on the G31 syncro rings is just parkerized? I was thinking I could just refinish them and hope for the best. Any other suggestions?
Todd |
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sequential
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Posts: 500
Location: BANNED
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| Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 7:33 am Post subject: |
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| Raceboy wrote: | | sequential wrote: | | Raceboy wrote: | Paul, it's cheaper but even I would never do it, not to talk about pez with his genuine GT!
And Audi-style gearbox is weaker than G31. |
Beg to differ , Audi , 951 box is stronger. |
Have you pushed both of them to teh limits? Wayne, thre's been arguments soooo many times about it, and on Rennlist couple of guys have even tried them both. Though the syncros are the Achilleus heel of it. But, Audi-type gearbox has it's own Ach. heel, and that's differential.
Eather way, next winter I'm going to have my G31 done (we have one hell of a gearbox builder here). He said he can swap the 930 gearbox parts (dog teeth etc) with little machining to it and have you guys heard of carbon syncros? Anyway, that's what he recommended for it. |
We rem finish the gears , my comparision is easy the stock 931 box will not handle the kind of power the 951 audi box will hold. we have no box problems , but we do lose the cv after 40 race hrs , so they are changed freqntly and cryoed.
the G31 box in 911 guise fails over 300 whp , the audi box is just plain stronger , i would not waste the time with the g31 BOX when 951 boxes are available in a bundance. spending cash to modify the G31 does not make any sense here in the US and we have pounded the audi box to 450 whp running 1 hr races. 
_________________
928 gts prototype
baby blue engine block
steam in 1,2,3,4 sometimes
cold star issues while on stands
112 whp with new 4 valve head and MIS 2 |
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Paul
Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 9491
Location: Southeast Wisconsin
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| Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 9:59 am Post subject: |
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Raceboy mine has the 930 parts....
_________________
White 87 924S "Ghost"
Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
White 01 986 "Christine"
Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
Owned and repaired 924s since 1977
Porsche: It's not driving, it's therapy. |
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Khal
Joined: 26 Sep 2003
Posts: 4872
Location: Sunny and lovely interior BC, Canada
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| Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 12:49 pm Post subject: Re: Dog teeth |
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| pez wrote: | | I need dog teeth for 1st, 2nd & 3rd for my carrera GT(G31 snailshell). Porsche only sell complete gear sets @ massive cost & then 3rd is no longer available ! |
Have you tried any Aussie suppliers? Just a thought. You'd be surprised sometimes what people down here have lying around 
I agree with the others regarding the gearbox swap. For longevity and cost, it seems to be worth it. I've heard nothing but bad things about the synchro's in the snailshell 'boxes, especially second, which, as Paul says (and I've been told by others "in the know", too) will fail again within a year or two after replacement anyway  And once those synchro's go, well, shifting becomes a chore and I'm sure it doesn't do the rest of the gearbox internals any good, either.
Unless you're doing some serious engine mods in the future or racing your car, ignore the bullsh*t about which 'box is stronger. Who cares? On a regular, street-driven weekend toy, it's totally irrelevant (...which 'box is cheaper/easier to get parts for in long run, on the other hand, is very important!)
So, the question of originality... tough one. You know what I'd do? I'd swap the 'box out for a 944 'box. And I'd keep the original. You can always fix it later and/or when it comes to selling the car, it can always be re-fitted, right? I don't see too much of a big deal with that... 
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Paul
Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 9491
Location: Southeast Wisconsin
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| Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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Check out chapter 7 here:
http://www.924.org/techsection/technical.htm
_________________
White 87 924S "Ghost"
Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
White 01 986 "Christine"
Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
Owned and repaired 924s since 1977
Porsche: It's not driving, it's therapy. |
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Raceboy
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 2327
Location: Estonia, Europe
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| Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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Sequential, now you're just making a statement without serious facts.
I know a few cars that use G31 and have in excess of 500 hp and and it's not failed yet, though they drag-race it too (moreover, some guys use G31 on non-Porsches). Doesn't that give you an idea? Oh, and what box did the GTR use? 
The R&P of the Audi style gearbox is THE weakest link of it.
930 gearbox can withstand powerlevels to the 800hp, sooo if you have so much experience on 911's, you should know that.
I think the reason you keep saying "951 box is stronger and that's it" is that you use it yourself and that's the rightest thing to do or something.
You're saying that modifing G31 doesn't make any sense and it's weaker but you compare a non-modified G31 to your modified 951-unit? Isn't that something like comparing an apple to a pumpkin?
_________________
'83 924 2.6 16v Turbo, 470hp
'67 911 2.4S hotrod
'90 944 S2 Cabriolet
'78 924 Carrera GT replica
'84 928 S, sold
'91 944 S2, sold
'82 924S/931 "Gulf", sold
'84 924, turbocharged, sold.
http://www.facebook.com/vemsporsche |
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sequential
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Posts: 500
Location: BANNED
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| Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Raceboy wrote: | Sequential, now you're just making a statement without serious facts.
I know a few cars that use G31 and have in excess of 500 hp and and it's not failed yet, though they drag-race it too (moreover, some guys use G31 on non-Porsches). Doesn't that give you an idea? Oh, and what box did the GTR use?
The R&P of the Audi style gearbox is THE weakest link of it.
930 gearbox can withstand powerlevels to the 800hp, sooo if you have so much experience on 911's, you should know that.
I think the reason you keep saying "951 box is stronger and that's it" is that you use it yourself and that's the rightest thing to do or something.
You're saying that modifing G31 doesn't make any sense and it's weaker but you compare a non-modified G31 to your modified 951-unit? Isn't that something like comparing an apple to a pumpkin? |
Raceboy , i believe right now you are drinking warm milk and cookies so you are having a great time . 
I'm comparing stock box for box, i had also mentioned modifications that are done to make the gearbox last , any box , not my invention just facts passed on to us from Porsche motorsport.
Raceboy
1. 930 turbo box is not in your 931...( try fitting one )
2. 930 gearbox has 4 gears for a reason
3. Only 911 t with G50/50 5 spd will last at 500 bhp for 1 hr.
4. I have 911 customers Making 9 and 10 sec et,s passes @150 mph+ so i might have a clue at what i'm talking about ( seeing you are always refering to drag racing ) and then i have those that run 2 and 3 hr enduros .
5. ONly n/a and old slow ass 911's who like repairing there gearbox's after every race weekend will run with an old ass g31 box. most convert to g50
6. Any gearbox will last in drag racing longer than it will last racing for 1 hr. AT THE SAME POWER LEVEL! It is clutch and tire shock that is the culpret in drag racing, heat and searing loads in road racing .
7. You need to get out more often
8. Go and pay great attn to the leman,s 924 carrera's and remember they where only making 300-350 whp. and ran most of the time on 3 cylinders.
9.The G31 is a "porsche" gearbox the 951 an "audi" gearbox. i guess someone at Porsche should have spoken to the great RACEBOY 
BEFORE GOING OUT SPENDING GOOD CASH FOR AN AUDI BOX , WHEN THEY HAD THE DOG BULLOCKS ALREADY AT PORSCHE 6 YRS PREVIOUS.
10. I also have FWD Honda, Mitsubishis, Dodge neon Customers who have made 11, 10 ,9, and 8 sec passes with their FWD transaxle are you saying that jap transaxles are stong, i bet not as with 60 % less power they fail in 1 hr enduros, road racing , but i again what can i say , i 'm shooting without facts !
Pass over the cookies 
_________________
928 gts prototype
baby blue engine block
steam in 1,2,3,4 sometimes
cold star issues while on stands
112 whp with new 4 valve head and MIS 2 |
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Raceboy
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 2327
Location: Estonia, Europe
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| Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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You should read my post more carefully. I never said that it's 930 internals in the G31, I said they can be used (not gearing of course).
I never said that I want to use 930 box in 931, I'm not that stupid not to understand that they're not interchangeable.
As for G50, you should have your information updated, because 930 gearbox is one of the strongest Porsche ever produced for street cars.
G50's only advantages are that it has shorter gearing and better shifting= better for racing.
And as for drag-racing, no, if gearbox can withstand 1 hour race, IT DOESN'T mean that it can hold together hard launches. It's obvious that you have less dragracing experience than circuit racing. And I'm not saying that you have little or something. Just sometimes THE GREAT WAYNE doesn't know everything.
You should bring some hard facts and statements rather insulting me (btw, you're great at it too, insulting people).
_________________
'83 924 2.6 16v Turbo, 470hp
'67 911 2.4S hotrod
'90 944 S2 Cabriolet
'78 924 Carrera GT replica
'84 928 S, sold
'91 944 S2, sold
'82 924S/931 "Gulf", sold
'84 924, turbocharged, sold.
http://www.facebook.com/vemsporsche |
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924 FAQ (Technical)
