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Roll Bar on Street Car?
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garyj19  



Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 226
Location: Connecticut

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 8:48 am    Post subject: Roll Bar on Street Car? Reply with quote

okay, here is the deal. im 16, and a 924 will be my first car. its not ready to be put on the road yet, but soon it will be. me and my dad are in a big argument about putting in a rollbar. He wants me to put in a rollbar(the kind that goes behind the seat) in my 924 n/a. i will not be racing this car in any way, and he still feels the absolute need for me to have this. i will be using this as an everyday car. ive looked at the power this car has, and it is very minimal. my dad thinks it is a 'race car'. it is totally stock in the engine department, and dont forget it is almost 30 years old. it is a 1977, if that helps at all. Please, all of you who drive thier 924 n/a everyday, tell me your honest opinion of whether or not it is worth the time or money.
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Ozzie  



Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 4447
Location: Townsville, Qld. Australia

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My opinion no- not necessary.
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garyj19  



Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 226
Location: Connecticut

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

another concern he has is from like rollover factors and other people hitting me. will a rollbar help in that situation? i know it will in a rollover situation, but from my understanding, a 924 isnt very likely to tip over. will a rollbar help with side impacts, etc..? is the 924 considered to be a small unsafe car to begin with?
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tj924  



Joined: 15 Jul 2004
Posts: 957
Location: Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 924 is a VERY SAFE car.

1. It is extremely unlikely to roll as the centre of gravity is very low (just look how low you're sitting) & just isn't that powerful (95bhp for a US '77 NA?)

2. Do a search on the board & you'll see some pics of at least one guy (I think theres more) whos 924 was totalled when it hit a truck or something. He walked away from it! The frame really does a fantastic job of protecting the car's occupants.

I don't think a rollbar will help in anything but a rollover. You'd need a full cage to offer better side imact protection & that is totally unnecessary for street driving.
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numbbers  



Joined: 05 Nov 2002
Posts: 1910
Location: Highlands Ranch, Colorado

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, your Dad is just worried about your safety. He knows from experience just how dumb a 16 year old male becomes when he gets behind the wheel. I garrantee you will get in at least two wrecks in the next six months. Don't ask me how I know.

So, do you need a rollbar for the street, no! But, you do need to pay attention when you are driving, and drive defensively. There are crappy drivers all over the street, and they are not looking out for you.

Welcome to the world of the 924, the best handling Porsche ever.
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fiat22turbo  



Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 4040
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would strongly urge you to take some high performance car control-specific driving courses at your local race track. Even if you're not interested in racing, it will help you be a better driver and to avoid more accidents than you might get into. If your local high-performance course offers a skid-car experience, do it. Its well worth it the money. Plus sometimes your insurance company will lower your rates for taking these classes and as a first time young male driver in a "sports car" you'll need all the help you can get in that area

Now, if you're serious about learning to drive cars quickly, you should probably do a driver's car control course once a year before the start of the racing season and to go through as many dirver's training sessions as you can get into. Go to your local Kart dtrack and rent one of their Karts and start learning the fundamentals of car control, the more experience you have, the better a driver you will be. This will help keep your skills fresh in car control and proper driving habits and you can see how bad the other drivers are as you will see "newbies" in your classes.

Speaking from the vantage point of a 28 year old who lost his license for a year and was paying $300/month for car insurance on a junk car because of my driving record. I would strongly urge you to never, ever race on the street or speed excessively. We've all been there, many have done it and speaking from past experience, racing on the street is dangerous and pointless (just like arguing on the internet) as its not a true test of you or your car's performance. If someone challenges you to a race, tell them to meet you at the local autocross course or drag strip. That way you can get hard numbers, potentially introduce some people to an interesting sport and still save face in front of your friends. I wish I had started doing that when I was younger.

If you want to go out and enjoy some nice roads and enjoy the feeling of the car in the corners, etc that's understandable but keep it under control, go no faster than 15-20mph over the speed limit in the corners and respect the other drivers on the road. Make sure the car is well maintained and that you fix any issues quickly.

Your dad is probably connecting his experiences as a young driver to what yours will likely be. Adding a rollbar will help stiffen the car a little, making it more responsive in the corners and of course will help protect you from getting hurt if you somehow manage to roll the car over. Just make sure you use SFI-Rated rollbar specific padding as your unprotected head might contact the thick steel of the rollbar and your head will lose everytime. Of course this leads to the cardinal rule: Never drive without your seatbelt on. Never let anyone ride in your car without their seatbelt on. If they balk, tell them that as the driver, you are their responsibility and that you care about their safety, also if there is a law in your area about wearing seatbelts that you would be the one responsible to pay for any tickets they might get for not obeying the law. This includes doing anything else illegal while as a passenger in your car.

I think I've blabbed long enough, hopefully some of what I said will make sense to you. Either way, good luck and enjoy the car!
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flosho  



Joined: 01 Jul 2004
Posts: 3153
Location: Eau Claire, Wisconsin

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

numbbers wrote:
I garrantee you will get in at least two wrecks in the next six months. Don't ask me how I know.


I agree with everything except this. Thats not always true.


I personally don't think it is necessary to have a roll cage installed, but if he's going to pay for it, then why not? Few extra lbs and some frame stiffness. Thats the argument I would use "if you think its necessary, you can pay for it!" or half, as it is your car..
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rat  



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 92
Location: Colchester, Essex, UK

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Car handling and being a good street driver are different things for the most part..

The thing as a newer driver you should concentrate on is looking out for the unexpected and planning what you would do if various things happened. What if a kid leaps out from behind that tree, what if some old woman reverses off that driveway without looking, is that person in the drivers seat parked on the side still going to be parked as i drive past them..
My most scary one from early driving was the passing ling lines of parked cars. Mothers with prams ALWAYS push the pram out before themselves, often before even looking!!! (3 alone on my driving test!)

The suggestion about if anyone tries to race you taking them to a track is a great plan, you should be able to get a much better impression of who is the faster driver as opposed to just drag racing down the street which is just pointless in my books. (plus you'll cream them round corners.. )

Anyway to answer the actual question - a roll over hoop would be pretty low on my list of priorities for saftey. The pictures ive seen of these cars after crashes and my own experience from working around the car show them to be tough little beasts. If your dad is really concerned then a full cage might be worthwhile, but needs protection from you braining yourself on it(crash helmet or loads of padding everywhere).

The advise that has kept me out of a lot of trouble (im only 22 so not that far ahead of you) is you have just past your test, now you need to get out and learn how to drive. The more you learn the more you realise how stupidly dangerous you were before. Take it steady and always make sure you can stop in the distance you can see ahead on your side of the road.

A 924 as a first car - you made a great choice Just make sure you look after it and try to keep it crash free so you get everything it can give from it
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rat  



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 92
Location: Colchester, Essex, UK

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow - you come in asking about your dad being paranoid about roll cages and you get a bunch of lectures. I hope one of you learns a lesson from that..
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Mike924  



Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 2601
Location: IoW UK

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rat wrote:
Car handling and being a good street driver are different things for the most part..


Wow! I never thought I'd hear that from someone from Essex!

Only kidding, Rat!

PS I like Capris, too
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skemcin  



Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 1284
Location: Plainfield, IL

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

if you loose the discussion with your dad, then make sure he pads the roll cages too. if you are involved in an accident and you hit your head on an unpadded roll bar - a concussion is the least of your worries. Notice on any car that has a roll cage the driver is always wearing a helmut? So, the concensus from what I gather is as follows, in this order of preference:

1.) no roll cage, drive safely
2.) no roll cage, take performance driving course
3.) roll cage with helmut
4.) roll cage with padding
5.) roll cage, take it or leave it

In any case, I'd ask you're dad if he knows what IPDE stands for. You might even be as bold to say you'll take the cage if he knows what it means.

FYI, this is what you should be doing ALL THE TIME behind the wheel:
Identify = This is when you look for: specific clues, other roadway users, roadway features and conditions, Traffic Controls, Condition of your vehicle
Predict = This is when you predict: actions of others, control of your vehicle, consequences of your actions
Decide = This is when you decide to: change speed, change direction, communicate
Execute = This is when you: accelerate, brake, steer, communicate, combind actions

THAT is the most inportant thing to know before getting in your car - having that be second nature to you is far safer than any roll cage with or without a helmut.

P.S. I totaled my brothers 85 Chevy Spectrum within the first six months of earning my license. Never been in one since (15+ years accident free). Speeding tickets are a whole nother topic though.

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Last edited by skemcin on Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:07 am; edited 3 times in total
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chris24  



Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 334
Location: boston/nottingham UK

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Absolutely rat. Expect the unexpected!

Don't 'expect' to crash twice in the first 6 months though! I only crashed 6 months after I started driving when I 'thought' I knew how to drive.
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Mike924  



Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 2601
Location: IoW UK

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

skemcin wrote:
THAT is the most inportant thing to know before getting in your car - having that be second nature to you is far safer than any roll cage with or without a helmut.


Correct.

In my wilder days I used to ride a motorcycle. I read something in a bike magazine that struck a chord. The question was what type of helmet is the safest. The answer was: safety is more closely related to what goes on inside your head rather than what goes around it!

It always better not to have the crash in the first place...
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'There is no substitute for a little grease under your fingernails.' - Chrenan, 924board.org
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rat  



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 92
Location: Colchester, Essex, UK

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike924 wrote:
Wow! I never thought I'd hear that from someone from Essex!

PS I like Capris, too


Im more from the countryside/coast of essex so i missed out on most of the horrors.

I did like the capri but the body rust and expense put me off. Id never heard of the 924 until a week before i bought mine - thats how amazed i was by the cars, and it still keeps on amazing me.
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Porsche924boy  



Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 252
Location: Ohio

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No a roll bar isn't needed. Cause of the lower center of gravity and transaxle(means the transmission is in the rear of the car) make it stick to the road like it's glued. Me and my dad when we run my car we don't roll or slide. SO glad to see ya, i'm proably the youngest member. Happy Porsching!
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