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Low tech solutions... to large power numbers.

 
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ESC944  



Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 747
Location: FL

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:30 pm    Post subject: Low tech solutions... to large power numbers. Reply with quote

USING A CARB AND A BOOST SOURCE....

OK first lets look at non-porsche engines for a moment...

A friend recently brought up carbs vs. efi for making serious power, of course I agree, carbs are the affordable solution... 9 out of 10 times.

Any choice requires compromise, still here is a good example of low tech + boost = insane power.

Quote:
Super Ford Magazine (July 2000)
JBA Performance 5 liter Ford used a A4 block and Crower crankshaft (a lot cheaper than a typical crate motor) and 30 psi boost to develop over 900 hp.

Boost was provided by a Paxton Novi supercharger which wore the belt out every 30 passes down the old 1/4 according to the article -- which proves that reliability was good enough to run the car on a regular basis.

The only serious issue being belt replacement on the Paxton.

What is unusual about this Ford is the cheap, clean simple induction system.

JBA used an "out-of-the-box" Holley Dominator 1250 cfm carb on a DRAW-THRU system.

No fuel injection and no intercooler, or other hi -junk- tech.

The whole induction system is simple as it gets with a JBA shop built manifold on the inlet side of the Paxton Novi supercharger and an Edelbrock Victor Jr intake manifold delivering everything to the engine.

For low bucks racing, this system is hard to improve on if you're trying to race on a budget
.


It really is a good article. As are the similar ones...


Last edited by ESC944 on Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:58 pm; edited 4 times in total
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ESC944  



Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 747
Location: FL

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now... thats enough to make any company that pushes big money solutions cry every time they see this car run or anything like it. Why?

Cause so many people buy into the need for Hi-tech solutions. It simply isn't about "hobby" to the companies that sell this stuff, its about big fast profits and then some. Carbs are great low-tech solutions.

Of course we are not building drag cars, we all want more performance, or we wouldnt be reading the performance upgrade threads.

I am not saying that EFI does not have its place, it does, as does CIS, but... a lot of what you read, is written by people with something to sell or by people who have bought into it.

I do EFI conversions... I also like Carbs. I like to use whatever I can that is so cheap it would make another man cry when you compare reciepts.

12 second twin turbo junk yard motors using carbs, PVC pipe and some used turbos... time and time again. You can make power a thousand different ways.

The real challenge is finding ways to do it that dont break the bank.

Dont like your CIS... and what Side drafts get expensive fast to... even used... hemm... 4 barrel carb anyone? Mount it to a custom manifold and tune... gessh... Set timing... better exhaust... blah blah f-ing blah!
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ESC944  



Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 747
Location: FL

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What is not generally known is that Bo Burt built a similar 5 liter Studebaker at the same time which also used a Paxton Novi supercharger and 30 psi boost. He used a blow-thru the carb system and turned high 9 second quarters in a heavy Studebaker GT Hawk street car. His advantage over the JBA (cost wise) was that he was able to use a stock Stude block and crankshaft.


Using a stock block and crankshaft... what a great idea... an engine is and engine is an engine... some are better than others, but they still function the same.

If the 924 vs. the 924 turbo really is only seperated by a head and pistons plus different CIS, then one should be able to make power from the 924 by following the factory example. I mean... factory block, rods and crank... even na pistons for low boost. But if you want more boost and more power:

Get compression down
Add Boost
Correct and Adjust Fuel Delivery
Adjust Timing

The 931/924 Turbo has no fancy hi tech controls... its pretty low-tech.

So if you are going to make power from a 924... seems the logical step is to follow both the aftermarket and factory trend.

Boost! So... some forged slugs, decent boost levels, let the head breath and enjoy!

Now in the other recent threads I talked about the magazine articles... the how to is in those even if you dont follow it exactly you can still expect and increase in power.

1.) Bigger valves in head - stock 924 head or 931 head
2.) Timing
3.) Cam profile
4.) Boost

Optional:
5.) Increase displacement.

Very Optional:
EFI

Now since one can make 270HP at the wheels with a stroker, boost and CIS.

It stands to reason that either tweaking the CIS or supplementing it or Carbs would allow for more than ample fuel delivery.

EFI - a good option... especially for fuel economy and tweaking.

Yet not a most have. Sorry no I dont think it is, but the added engine control of a complete system has its merits.

MY OPINIONS ARE JUST THAT MINE...


Last edited by ESC944 on Sun Jan 29, 2006 8:03 pm; edited 2 times in total
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ESC944  



Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 747
Location: FL

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The basic formula for power is:

Air+Fuel+Spark

The variables are things like Displacement, Compression ratio, Fuel type, etc

Now an engine doesnt care how you get fuel, air or spark. It only cares that it gets all three to keep running.

Optimize any of those or increase them and you get more power, or get more power for less.

Carbs... and mechanical fuel injection where good enough for porsche racing...

Toss in boost for the Famous CGT, GTS, GTR and GTP(my fav.), well these engines... didnt use modern EFI.
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ESC944  



Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 747
Location: FL

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what do you do if you cant "Do it yourself" ?

1.)you can get a friend to give you a and and sort it out...
2.)you can learn as you go
3.)you can pay someone to do it
4.)you can give up and buy a 924 turbo or a 944 turbo or anything faster and better than your little 924 NA.

I say do the research, get familar with the details, get together with some friends and sort it out and never pay retail for anything you cant make or have made for less money.

The exception being when its impossible to duplicate...

The low tech solution is often the best and the least damaging to your wallet.

Regardless POWER cost, even if it cost a penny, it wasnt free.

So what are you willing to pay and what compromises are you going to make in the quest for more power?
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ESC944  



Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 747
Location: FL

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Power and that sort of performance is not the same, and should not be professed as the same as:

Improved handling
Improved breaking
Stronger Driveline
Better Power Transfer

Adding more power... is just that, cut out the BS... it starts with more power from the engine.

Your limits are time, money and skill, not necessarily in that order. When you dont have enough of one or more, its time to consider other options.

Trade, barter, shop around, go used, etc... and consider low tech over high tech.

I am not professing that Low tech is better, I am saying its an often over-looked solution.

Now EFI for the D-I-Y has gotten mighty affordable... So it remains and will ever be an option.

The one factor most of us should consider is what can we really do ourselves and what will we have to pay someone to do.

Someone elses labor is almost never free!

Side drafts are not the only solution to carbs... but they are certainly a bolt on affair.

A down draft... requires more fabrication, but can prove to still be cheaper... when compared to a set of side drafts and the intake manifold to mount them.

Of course their is also the "how does it look" Factor.
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