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Performance Downgrade!! 5 speed - 4 speed

 
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daniel  



Joined: 18 Jun 2009
Posts: 669
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:04 am    Post subject: Performance Downgrade!! 5 speed - 4 speed Reply with quote

Hi all
My car is a November built 77 factory fitted with the Getrag 5 speed box. I am arguing with CAMS (similiar role to the US SCCA) over here in Australia regarding the cars eligability as a Historic production sports car.
I may have to change it back to a 4 speed gearbox as part of the eligability. So what I would like to know is, what is required to swap to a 4 speed?
1) Are the mounts the same?
2) Are the drive shafts the same length?
3) Is the shift linkage the same?

Cheers!
Daniel
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Over the top of skyline, total brake failure.... hit the wall at over 200 kp/h at the dipper, so anyone who has to brake for the esses is a pussy.
1977.5 Race Car, CAMS Group S Spec
1989 944 Cabriolet
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Khal  



Joined: 26 Sep 2003
Posts: 4869
Location: Sunny and lovely interior BC, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

daniel wrote:
My car is... factory fitted with the Getrag 5 speed box... I may have to change it back to a 4 speed gearbox as part of the eligability.


Yep, that sounds just about retarded enough to be true of CAMS
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'80 924 Turbo
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 8868
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

send a letter to porsche, they can confirm if the car was fitted with a 5 speed, and if they do you can shove it into those guys's face
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daniel  



Joined: 18 Jun 2009
Posts: 669
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Already done, they wont accept it. Pack of arogant aholes...
I just want to know whats involved in doing the swap incase I have to.

Thanks
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Over the top of skyline, total brake failure.... hit the wall at over 200 kp/h at the dipper, so anyone who has to brake for the esses is a pussy.
1977.5 Race Car, CAMS Group S Spec
1989 944 Cabriolet
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Dutch924-racer  



Joined: 23 Jul 2007
Posts: 1076
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just get a four speed gear knob
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Series 2 engine
951S turbo and intercooler
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 8868
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dutch924-racer wrote:
Just get a four speed gear knob


haha ! yep..i think thats a good way to keep your car as it is and trick those idiots
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15548
Location: Spring Lake MI

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To switch over to the four speed, you will need:
- Any Audi-style torque tube from a normally aspirated donor
- Any Audi-style shift lever
- Specifically, the shift rod & linkage from a 4-speed donor
- The 4-speed gearbox with transaxle mounts

Also, the other critical difference between the two gearboxes is that the snailshell (getrag 5-speed) mounts onto two wings on the torsion carrier. Not knowing how yours was done, I am assuming that you have the matching getrag style torsion carrier, which looks like this:



If this is the torsion carrier you have in your car, you either need to replace it with a torsion carrier from any Audi-equipped car, or you will need to cut off the two support wings (the ones in the center) that support the snailshell style gearbox. If you decide to go the replacement route, you will want to swap in the entire rear suspension assembly unless you feel comfortable dealing with reindexing torsion bars.
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daniel  



Joined: 18 Jun 2009
Posts: 669
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Ideola, id rather take CAMS to court and not race then go to all that trouble and expense!

Daniel
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Over the top of skyline, total brake failure.... hit the wall at over 200 kp/h at the dipper, so anyone who has to brake for the esses is a pussy.
1977.5 Race Car, CAMS Group S Spec
1989 944 Cabriolet
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15548
Location: Spring Lake MI

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup, it's a buttload of work for sure. It's not hard, but I think your challenge would be sourcing the parts.
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daniel  



Joined: 18 Jun 2009
Posts: 669
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
challenge would be sourcing the parts


This is another option for me, if I cant buy parts I can apply to have more modern parts subsituted!

Daniel
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Over the top of skyline, total brake failure.... hit the wall at over 200 kp/h at the dipper, so anyone who has to brake for the esses is a pussy.
1977.5 Race Car, CAMS Group S Spec
1989 944 Cabriolet
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924RACR  



Joined: 29 Jul 2001
Posts: 8794
Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could you just change the VIN plate for a '79 or later?

Thankfully SCCA 1) just dropped the VIN rule for Improved Touring (meaning you don't even have to have a valid VIN anymore), and b) allows swapping of assemblies between different years/models if they're all classed together. So I can run any of the 3 manual trannies (that originally came in a 2.0L NA car) in my racecar, since all 2.0L 924's are classed together. Same deal with brakes; I don't have to have a car that was actually delivered with the 5-lug brakes, since they're listed as allowed, same classification line as the 4-bolt setup.

Of course, Production is another story (beknighted idiots)...
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Vaughan Scott
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'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype
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Vince Ponz  



Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 3581
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1969 bought a new 911 and tried to join the Porsche Club the registrar asks me who recommended me. I walked away and did not join for 20 years. At that time you had to be sponsored??. [Word looks funny]
Then 20 years later I did join without the questions.
Move to florida and went to two different Porsche clubs and the same pompous asses. First question "what car do you own" Pissed me off. So I only have a 77 924 track car, a 931 79 and a 911 87 and I am still getting the 'oh you only have a 87" Forget about the 924s they don't count.
I have not joined in the past two years and I know the Pres. of the US PCA. I don't need the hassle.

Enjoy the cars. I have.
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88 924S SE
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Fifty50Plus  



Joined: 28 Feb 2008
Posts: 1353
Location: Washington DC area

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1 with Vince. Although I'm a 35 year member of Porsche club, I'm pretty marginalized since none of my seven Porsches are newer than 1980.
BTW, SCCA really doesn't like Porsches since they never get any factory sponsorship money like they do from Nissan, Mazda and the tire companies. My 911 got spanked in the weight department because they thougth it might be a winner (it isn't). Vaughan's car is classed properly but is still heavy by their rules. If I have as much success with my 924 as Vaughan, they will probably award us more penalty weight.
Chuck
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1979 924 NA race car
1982 924 NA race car - Sold
1982 924 Turbo almost a PoS
1981 924 Turbo a real PoS, new engine
1982 924 Turbo nice body, blown engine
1972 911 E race car - going to Vintage
Various 944s to become IT-S race car
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924RACR  



Joined: 29 Jul 2001
Posts: 8794
Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How's the car coming, anyway? You gonna make it to the ARRC this year?
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Vaughan Scott
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'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype
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Fifty50Plus  



Joined: 28 Feb 2008
Posts: 1353
Location: Washington DC area

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, I finished up with the 911 this past weekend. I'm doing some work and selling some parts over the next two months and then will be able to order the go fast parts for the 924. I should have it ready for the spring.
Chuck
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1979 924 NA race car
1982 924 NA race car - Sold
1982 924 Turbo almost a PoS
1981 924 Turbo a real PoS, new engine
1982 924 Turbo nice body, blown engine
1972 911 E race car - going to Vintage
Various 944s to become IT-S race car
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