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Carbon-metallic brake pads

 
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Smoothie  



Joined: 01 Jan 2003
Posts: 8030
Location: DE (the one near MD, PA, NJ)

PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:59 am    Post subject: Carbon-metallic brake pads Reply with quote

Hey y'all, who all's using them? I had to decide between them and regular ol' semi-metallic for my moms car, but having had no experience with carb-mets and since (and these are her words) she says, "I don't use the brakes that much." , I went with the semi-mets for her.
I know you like 'em, John H - any new/changed opinions? Anyone else have any experience with them?

Also, they're shown at 2 different prices for the 924 '79-'83 5-bolt here (what's up with that?) - http://www.automotion.com/ProductPage.aspx?pid=103092&name=Hawk+Brakes&type=20
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-nick  



Joined: 16 Nov 2002
Posts: 2699
Location: Cambridge, MA

PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Smoothie,
No experience with them in an auto, but I picked up some for the motorbike and they really howl until reasonably warm. Had I known, I would have stuck with factory pads.

nick
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Smoothie  



Joined: 01 Jan 2003
Posts: 8030
Location: DE (the one near MD, PA, NJ)

PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's interesting about the howling, Nick. They're advertized as being quieter.
From what I've been able to gather, they're more of a race pad, but also good for street driving at cooler brake temps. -But they require some special attention to the bedding-in process. Probably scuff the rotors good with sandpaper if reusing, then the preferred initial break-in should be done on a track, including hard braking from higher speeds. -But if that's not possible, it was recommended to brake hard approx 15 times in quick succession from highway speed. Both carb-met and ceramic pads apparently need similar attention to the bedding-in, but ceramics would only be of use on the track because they don't grab well when cool, making them less than wonderful for street use.
Anyway, since ma "don't use the brakes that much", OEM or semi-met was correct there, but I might like to give carb-met a try on the 924. Not constantly, but once in a while I'll do a bit of "spirited" driving followed by some equally spirited braking and it feels like it could use a bit more grab in those situations.
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CBass  



Joined: 03 Nov 2002
Posts: 2807
Location: Vancouver, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smoothie is pretty spot on.

The autoXers I know love to use Ferrodo pads for dual purpose vehicles, they grip well when cold, have high fade resistance and a pretty good lifespan. They're also about as good a brake pad as you'll find for a 931, unfortunately. Aftermarket selection for Pagid, Hawk, EBC etc is pretty slim, with most making a front pad but not a rear pad for the 924... I've seen part numbers cross referenced for non turbo 944's including the NA 944S between 83-88, 944S and the 924 5 bolt/M471 option.

This is the route I'll be going, $100 for front and rear which is a relative bargain compared to some of the higher end pads out there. I'm running on street tires and I need good bite, so it's a good comprimise for hard road use and occasional track use.
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Robert Hooper  



Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Posts: 70
Location: Christchurch NZ

PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Team,

I have been using various pads ove the years and i have found that metalic type pads to be the best,

There is a company in Australia (melbourne) that does race pads for the 931/944 for very cheap,

very good pads as well,

They are associated with the 944 racing that is done in aussie

I cant remebr the name but if you ring aporshapart in melbourne they know

Cheers

Rob
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emoore924  



Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2801

PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most manufacturers are going to have several different brake pads in their product line -- each with different tourque and heat characteristics -- so you can't just say "carbon" pads -vs- "semi met's" or something like that. You'd have to compare manufacturer-composition-tourque-heat to be speaking apples to apples.

I've used cool carbon/performance friction blue pads for years in the front of the 924 race car, and reds in the rear. They squeal and do not brake well when cold but have very consistent stopping characteristics when heated and they simply do not fade. Also, they're rotor-friendly. I probably would not recommend them for the street simply because I can't seem to get enough heat in them puttering around town and they don't brake well under such conditions.

That being said, there are lots of other choices out there that might be appropriate for your application. PM 924RACR. He works for Bosch I think and knows a lot more than I do.
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JamesWilson  



Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 132
Location: San Diego, CA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm using Porterfield R4-S compound (hp street/autocross) on my 931, love them...they do make them in the R4 (race) compound, which is comparable to the Hawk Blue but last a tad longer...let me know if anyone is interested, I can work a better price the more that are ordered.

-JW
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Vince Ponz  



Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 3581
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

See message below. sorry
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Last edited by Vince Ponz on Sun Oct 02, 2005 1:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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Vince Ponz  



Joined: 02 Nov 2002
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Location: Florida

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am in the process of putting Kool carbon pads I bought from paragon in the track car.

I need the brake pins for the front calipers if anyone has them. They hold the pads in. Early 944 type.
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emoore924  



Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2801

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vince -- that might be a tough one 'cause ya usually needs dem pins.

However, I recall that the porsche factory "brake pad rehab" kit had them. That thing you could buy that had shoes, shims, and that spring clip that the pins hold in, and some other stuff. I thought it had the pins too. If you run out of options you might check with a dealer or parts house to see what they might have. One of the mechanics might be able to give you a set they didn't need from the kit or give you the old ones that were replaced by a set from the kit.

Didn't attend the Zippo race? I asked around and the guy at the safety equipment tent (sorry, his name escapes me) said you weren't there...
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john h  



Joined: 06 Nov 2002
Posts: 827
Location: Wellington New Zealand

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 9:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Carbon-metallic brake pads Reply with quote

Smoothie wrote:
Hey y'all, who all's using them? I had to decide between them and regular ol' semi-metallic for my moms car, but having had no experience with carb-mets and since (and these are her words) she says, "I don't use the brakes that much." , I went with the semi-mets for her.
I know you like 'em, John H - any new/changed opinions? Anyone else have any experience with them?

No change since last except I've popped them out of the GT (since it now runs 951 brakes) and put them in my every day driver 944. I don't find them to squeal or howl, they're better then standard pads from cold and I don't get them too hot on the street in the 944 but they are certainly better than the genuine Porsche pads I took out. Maybe I'm not hard enough on the brakes compared to you guys but they certainly work exceptional well for me.
As emoore pointed out you need to compare teh composition - I don't have that fro mine anymore but I know I took a fair bit of care to bed them in like the manufacturer recommends.
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Smoothie  



Joined: 01 Jan 2003
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Location: DE (the one near MD, PA, NJ)

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks gents . My current situation is Ferodo FDB165 asbestos free front pads installed new on January 6, 2002 - and judging by how they're going, they'll probably last at least another 2 years.
That situation where I've felt that more grab would be nice - It's on a downward slant, usually involves late braking, with a left 90 turn onto a road that continues downhill and seems to be slanted right, so in all fairness to Ferodo and their fine products it'd be a good test of any pad. -But I'm curious about the carb-mets and will probably give them a try when the time comes.
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Kenodog  



Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 2584
Location: Vancouver,B.C.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got a set of carb-mets for my gf's car.They are noisier I think but man they stop on a dime,less 9 cents change.Wear fast though,only 35k kms. and they only have about 25% left on them.Ouch.
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924RACR  



Joined: 29 Jul 2001
Posts: 8321
Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've heard the Hawks (Blues, specifically) tend to eat rotors pretty bad... this from the VW racers. Never used them, myself. I have always, since day one, used the Carbon/Kevlar KFP Magnum pads (about $100/axle) from Paragon. Think I'm using the Gold compound, can't really remember (shameful, really, but they last so long, I only need to change them every few years or so...). But there's a few different ones to choose. Squeal when they're hot - that's how you know you've got them warmed up - but seem fine enough when cold. Of course that car doesn't get driven on the street. Dust up pretty good.

For the daily driver I stick with the MetalMasters from PBR - an Aussie company. Great feel and stopping power, still OK when cold, and not at all bad on the dusting. Those are also available from Paragon.
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