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EFI Bolt On Kit
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Paul  



Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 9409
Location: Southeast Wisconsin

PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 11:43 am    Post subject: EFI Bolt On Kit Reply with quote

I wonder how many of these kits we would have to promise to order to have someone develop a bolt on kit for us?

Wonder how much it would cost?
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Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
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Peter_in_AU  



Joined: 29 Jul 2001
Posts: 2738
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting thought.

Real question is; how much would people pay?

You'd need to be able to offer the parts individually, some guys would only want a fuel rail, some would want a rail plus injectors, just the wiring loom or everything except the ECU 'cause they want to use a Haltech or a GM/Delco or a megasquirt.
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Neil924  



Joined: 18 Mar 2003
Posts: 4225
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would it be that big of an improvement?
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Paul  



Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 9409
Location: Southeast Wisconsin

PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you priced new CIS parts lately?

Is your car running rich?

Is your car getting 30 mpg like most modern EFI 2 liter 4 bangers?

Do you suffer from the hot start problem?

Can you buy parts over the counter at any car parts store?
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Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
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Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
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Neil924  



Joined: 18 Mar 2003
Posts: 4225
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see your point.

Do you have a ball park number on how much it would cost to buy the parts and have them installed?
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Paul  



Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 9409
Location: Southeast Wisconsin

PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There have been a lot of posts about various EFI projects over the years, but I'm hoping one of us someday will be able to provide a bolt on kit for us.

Does anyone have a daily driver 924 running correctly on an EFI system?
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Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
White 01 986 "Christine"
Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
Owned and repaired 924s since 1977
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flosho  



Joined: 01 Jul 2004
Posts: 3153
Location: Eau Claire, Wisconsin

PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would pay... Maximum of $500 USD for a direct BOLT ON kit... Maybe more with software as long as it could be converted in a weekend.. THis is for a 931 of course..

I would like to see the price about $300 though. DOIT!
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Paul  



Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 9409
Location: Southeast Wisconsin

PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At that price, we would probably have to source used GM parts ourselves.

I guess the hard parts are the programming for the ECU, the fuel rail, and
the trigger.
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moone924  



Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 866
Location: Douglas Wyoming

PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tomorrow, if it turns out my 931 needs a lot more than a fuel pump, I'm going to order everything to do megasquirt in the following week. I've had the car since May and it's still not running in Sept, toooooooo long.....

I plan to use new parts.
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endwrench  



Joined: 07 Dec 2002
Posts: 1629
Location: Victor, Montana

PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't imagine a true bolt on kit being developed. Too many variables. At the very least it would need to programable from a laptop. Standalone programming would cost too much and probably be limited in scope. Plus if you want ignition too you need to contend with atleast three different distributor trigger systems. DIS would be an even bigger nightmare due to trigger mounting differences. This doesn't take into account the big difference between 924's and 931's.

I think this will always be a custom piecemeal deal. I could put together a nice "Starter Kit" for someone using my fuel rails and a roughed in Mega Squirt control unit and a bunch of used parts that would get you running in one weekend but it would still need to be finished tuned. Not a big deal for some but may come off as rocket science for others. Even for this it would cost atleast $500 and you would still need some other parts and a laptop.

Todd
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AppleBit  



Joined: 16 Nov 2002
Posts: 1516
Location: Minneapolis, MN

PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fuel Rail: $150
Injectors (4): used 20x4 $80
Regulator: $200

Fittings and misc items: $200

Then you just need a computer and the wiring harness to it....

Electromotive: $2500
Hal-Teck: $1500
MS: $100-300 used/ebay new

so the MS (Mega Squirt) would be ideal to keep the price down. You do the work and some of the other stuff and you could have a stand alone in your car for less than $1000.... but lets be real folks- you have to tune the car $150 per hour - so 2-4 hours so you are looking at more money...

Only read on if you don't get sick of the amount of money I spend on my projects....

I will have spent a total of $4500-5000 on my stand alone setup when complete including a tune. Maybe more- haven't added up the bills...
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Peter_in_AU  



Joined: 29 Jul 2001
Posts: 2738
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

flosho wrote:
I would pay... Maximum of $500 USD for a direct BOLT ON kit... Maybe more with software as long as it could be converted in a weekend.. THis is for a 931 of course..

I would like to see the price about $300 though. DOIT!


And I want world peace and I want it to be Christmas every day of the year and...

Not having a go at you flasho I'm sure what you've said would be echoed by 90% of the US members.

Hit google and search on "aftermarket fuel rail price" and "efi fuel pump price" and "efi injectors price" oops there goes $300 - $500 and you haven't started. Then look for painless wiring (think that's what it's called) and price an engine wiring loom.

The real problem will always be trying to sell a $1000 upgrade to someone who paid $50 for his car. Ask Renegade.

If it was going to be done we'd have to do it ourselves. There's enough expertise on the board.
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1979 924 (Gone to a better place)
1974 Lotus 7 S4 "Big Valve" Twin-cam (waiting)
1982 924 (As featured on Wikipedia)

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AppleBit  



Joined: 16 Nov 2002
Posts: 1516
Location: Minneapolis, MN

PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if I can get a minimum order (number pending) I can have a complete wiring harness made up with a MS system and all other items that would be a bolt on kit for the 924/931 but the price would be roughly $1500 in the end (because building the wiring harness I would send that to my brothers shop were they do this sorta stuff in their sleep- but it would result in a setup that would just pop all the sensors in to place and into the wiring harness...

oops... forgot some other things in my estimations...

need a throttle body! I spend $30 on mine and then $200 for the adapter plate....
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leadfoot  



Joined: 11 Dec 2002
Posts: 2222
Location: gOLD cOAST Australia

PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheapest I can think of would be:
stock ignition - set to waste spark with ignition run off negative coil
Fuel rail, inserts, regulator and injestors.
Rising rate regulator used for turbos...
ECU... - with inbuilt MAP sensor

No TPS
No Timing cog or Hall sensor
No Oxygen sensor - so no closed loop

Would require, air temp sensor (possible to screw into PCV crossover pipe)
Change of coolant sensor....(should interchange with current location)
Wiring Loom / Relay board,relays, vaccum tube for MAP sensor (inbuilt into ECU)...

Hardest part would be adjusting fuel pressure, and tuning MAP due to cars previous mods....

This would be cheapest and easiest to set up.... once this is installed it can be left to the end user to install TPS, oxygen sensors ETC....

Now if someone were to construct this I would suggest that 4 oxygen sensor ports be placed in the manifold for testing(one placed at a time to calculate individual cylinder mixtures and a final MAP of air/fuel could be constructed for end users based on this.
What needs to be considered is final output HP and boost levels as an NA will miss out on a heap of load bands if tuned solely for turbos.
I would consider that two systems need to be employed, one for N/A and another for turbo operation based on max (XX psi settings) then injectors can be chosen for equivelence and a crossover point can be obtained.... EG someone purchasing N/A version swaps to turbo injectors (bought individually but now bolt on addition and replaces regulator for rising rate(also bolt in) Map can then be transfered to ECU (already purchased)
Leadfoot
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Kenodog  



Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 2580
Location: Vancouver,B.C.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could get a decent price on the fuel rails as long as we're all using the same injectors.Probably on the crank trigger adapters as well,or maybe just a new pulley with an integrated trigger.A friend is a cnc guru here only thing is I only have access to a cnc mill not lathe.Can't spin off a pulley on a mill.Definitely something to think about,i'm not going back to school to be a machinist for nothing.
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