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Andrew NZ
Joined: 22 Jun 2004 Posts: 744 Location: New Zealand
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Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:18 am Post subject: |
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Sorry, everything's done on a tight budget around here!
Haven't you Aussies heard of Kiwi ingenuity? _________________ Andrew
1977 RX924 race car
12a bridgeport supercharged
www.race4-dcup.co.nz |
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gohim
Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 4459 Location: Rialto, CA
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Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:21 am Post subject: |
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Those calipers look like the ones that are used on VWs with four wheel disc brakes. Parking brake is integrated into the caliper. From experience with the VW versions, I can tell you that the parking brake is prone to get siezed, and you can't disassemble them to rebuilt. No parts, and they have some parts that are crimped, or swaged at assembly and cannot be easily disassembled.
I think the BMW 3 series use something similar as well. Here in the US, it is still less expensive, and much less involved to simply change over using the Porsche parts. I am not sure if the Peugeot 405 that the parts came from was even imported into the US, so the necessary parts may not be available here, or may cost more than the parts necessary for a Genuine all Porsche Parts conversion. |
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Smoothie
Joined: 01 Jan 2003 Posts: 8032 Location: DE (the one near MD, PA, NJ)
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Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:37 am Post subject: |
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I wonder if anyone ever got the caliper-integrated parking brake to work right. My long gone '70 Fiat 124 Spyder with 4 wheel discs had the same problem - with nothing apparently wrong or out of place, the parking brake would always get stuck in freezing temps. _________________ "..it's made in Germany. You know the Germans always make good stuff."
'82 924T, US version, dark green metallic, 5 speed Audi 016G gearbox |
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gohim
Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 4459 Location: Rialto, CA
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Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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Don't feel bad about never getting the parking brakes working right on your old Fiat. The problem wasn't yours, the problem was that the car was Italian. The poor materials and workmanship on those cars was legendary. So was the lack of spare parts.
When I hung out at the Body Shop of a guy that graduated from my High School, I once saw a "Fiat" X1/9 that came in that was damaged on the left front corner (that's when the cars were a newer model and still in production). Marco climbed into the front trunk, and pressed out the huge dent with just his feet (talk about thin sheet metal). We removed the bumper (bumper shocks were blown), and ordered replacements. Six months later, the car was still at the shop without a bumper, because the bumper shocks were not available are spare parts (still out of stock). New cars were arriving daily at the Fiat Dealership down the street, and they had bumper shocks, but there were no parts available to fix broken cars. Marco ended up stretching the blown shocks out, and welding the parts together at the right length (aluminum bumper bars, with steel shock bodies). Two weeks later, someone else smashed into the front of the car, and the whole process started all over again.
Last edited by gohim on Thu Jun 09, 2005 7:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Peter_in_AU
Joined: 29 Jul 2001 Posts: 2743 Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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hey Andrew
How about immortalising yourself by doing a write-up of the procedure and snapping a few more high-resolution pics. _________________ 1979 924 (Gone to a better place)
1974 Lotus 7 S4 "Big Valve" Twin-cam (waiting)
1982 924 (As featured on Wikipedia)
Learn to love your multimeter and may the search be with you |
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924zombie
Joined: 02 Oct 2004 Posts: 52 Location: cold old UK
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Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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A write up with more pics would be excellent |
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skemcin
Joined: 02 Sep 2003 Posts: 1284 Location: Plainfield, IL
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Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 9:36 am Post subject: |
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924zombie wrote: | A write up with more pics would be excellent | send me a copy so I can add it to the tutorials content section of the new site:
http://www.iribbit.net/924
thanks _________________ 924.org (no time to complete)
9249206346 - 89k – new shifter bushings, belts, running well.
9249206347 - 8k – waiting its resurrection, no power at the fuel pump and fuse #7 blows w/power |
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Paul
Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 9491 Location: Southeast Wisconsin
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Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 9:44 am Post subject: |
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The Fiat X 1/9 was designed by Bertone to survive a 50 mph head on collision. It was way ahead of it's time in many ways.
I owned 5 of these, and worked on hundreds of Fiats in the 70's. Also I used to blow off all the Porsches that showed up to autocross (even my 914 which I also drove). Once in awhile I would get fastest time of day of all the cars.
From:
http://nyssa.ltd.uk/FiatX19/
"The Fiat X1/9 was a benchmark car, the world's first mass-production mid-engined sports car. Designed by Bertone, and built firstly by Fiat, then by Bertone, the role of the X1/9 was to replace the Fiat 850 Spider.
By 1969, Bertone convinced Fiat that a mid-engined car could be produced to fulfil the role of the Fiat 128 Spider. For the 1969 Turin Motor Show, Bertone produced the Runabout based on Autobianchi A112 mechanicals.
From these origins, over the next two to three years, the X1/9 we know was developed. Proposed draconian crash laws (50 mph head-on and 80 mph rollover) to be brought in by the USA caused heavy crash protection to be designed into the X1/9, indeed the X1/9 passed these tests that were never brought in. Thus the X1/9 was designed with a body and separate crash-bearing members to withstand such enormous impacts, but with the penalty that the two-seater X1/9 weighed 65kg more than the four-seater 128 Sport Coupe." |
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gohim
Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 4459 Location: Rialto, CA
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Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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Talk about biased reporting....
The 914 was on the drawing board before the Fiat X 1/9 was, and it reached production before the X 1/9 did. While the X 1/9 was produced over a longer period than the 914 was, there is no doubt that the 914 was infact a production vehicle before the X 1/9 with over 100,000 units produced from 1969-1975.
I don't know how you modified your X 1/9s, but there is no way that a stock X 1/9 could ever out perform a stock 914 (except maybe on a road narrow road course (too narrow for a 914 to turn in) virtually without straightaways at super low speeds (under 10-12 miles an hour)). Could this be the difference that the Driver makes when you mention outperforming 914s? The X 1/9 engine was gutless, and the transmission was geared so low that you could run faster than the X 1/9 could move in 1st gear without redlining. Granted, the X 1/9 engine was VERY SMALL (probably to avoid the Italian tax based on engine displacement). But that very fact kept it from ever being a serious racer against other cars with normal sized engines, regardless of ever you stand on the build quaility issue. I remember driving X 1/9s and having to shift to 2nd as soon as the car was moving because the cars were headed for redline right off creeper speed. From what I remember from the X 1/9s I drove, you had to redline in first to be able to reach the step to 2nd, and then another big step to third, and the engine still would not pull (the X 1/9 1300 cc engine was gutless, was the later 1500 any better?). My 73 914 2.0 will still run to 60mph in second gear, and easily outrun any stock X 1/9 or reasonably modified X 1/9 that I ever encountered hill racing on Mulholland Drive (Hollywood to Mailbu). Yeah, with work you could tighten up the handling (shocks, springs, swaybars), but the engine was hopeless. On a road like Mulholland with it's varied terrain, tight corners, long sweepers, and some even longer straight stretches, the X 1/9 didn't have enough balls to be competitive. A more even match enginewise (but the X 1/9 would still lose) would probably be a weak Lotus Europa (not a Cosworth, and the Lotus would easily outhandle the X 1/9).
Still, the early X 1/9 was a swoopy looking (and initially cheap) car for a teenybopper who was not interested in real road performance. The car actually looked like fun, it just didn't deliver. Lots of my friends test drove them (around 1974), while hopefully shopping for what would be their first cars, but the desire for ownership never survived the first test drive. The later cars got slower, less reliable, less affordable, and less desirable, which is what ultimately killed them.
I can still remember when my neighbor bought a X 1/9, fairly soon after I got my 73 914 2.0. Poor guy, between my uncle's 70 914/6 living next door to him, and my 73 914 2.0 two doors away on the other side, his new car was more of an embrassment, than the road to bragging rights on the block. I almost felt sorry for him a few weeks later when I wiped the road with him in an informal stoplight drag a couple of weeks later. After that, I never saw him drive the car again, though I saw the car parked in his garage for years following...
Last edited by gohim on Mon Jun 13, 2005 4:56 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Paul
Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 9491 Location: Southeast Wisconsin
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Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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I drove my stock (well almost) 1974 X 1/9 and my 1971 1.7 914 in the same autocrosses many times. The X 1/9 always won. This was in the Penn State Sports Car club, the Altoona Sports Car Club, and the local SCCA. We used to autocross 3 weekends a month!
The 914 turned in slowly, shifting was slow, the X 1/9 was sharp and precise.
Most of the courses in those days were very tight... _________________ White 87 924S "Ghost"
Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
White 01 986 "Christine"
Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
Owned and repaired 924s since 1977
Porsche: It's not driving, it's therapy. |
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Andrew NZ
Joined: 22 Jun 2004 Posts: 744 Location: New Zealand
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Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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Just got back from an 800km "test drive" on the Dunlop Targa Tauranga, and these brakes are brilliant! My co-driver made several coments about the brakes through the day, and I scared him a few times with how late we were braking before triple caution corners, but it always stopped with out fuss. It was nice not to have to adjust the drums at every service stop too - we didn't touch the brakes all weekend.
I'll try to give some more detail and photos of the handbrake linkages later in the week, but I've got a bit of work to catch up on first. _________________ Andrew
1977 RX924 race car
12a bridgeport supercharged
www.race4-dcup.co.nz |
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Raceboy
Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Posts: 2326 Location: Estonia, Europe
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Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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To go more OT: check this X 1/9 out:
It has ~600hp 2-litre turboed engine, on One Mile Challenge it has done 299kph, though in that picture (competition 3 weeks ago) the guy blew head gasket. _________________ '83 924 2.6 16v Turbo, 470hp
'67 911 2.4S hotrod
'90 944 S2 Cabriolet
'78 924 Carrera GT replica
'84 928 S, sold
'91 944 S2, sold
'82 924S/931 "Gulf", sold
'84 924, turbocharged, sold.
http://www.facebook.com/vemsporsche |
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J1NX3D
Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Posts: 1333 Location: New Zealand
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Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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Andrew NZ wrote: | Just got back from an 800km "test drive" on the Dunlop Targa Tauranga |
great stuff Andrew! unfortunately i wont get to see the targe but this Friday im off to Rotorua for the Rally of Rotorua. I volunteer on a start team, its always lots of fun. Good luck with the Targa! _________________ '86 944 |
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iambudge
Joined: 29 Mar 2005 Posts: 21 Location: Somerset. UK
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:23 am Post subject: |
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Ok I'm going to have a stab at this ! Because I have them around I'll be using MK2 Golf GTI rear calipers (Passat ones actually but they are the same). When I was overhauling the brakes earlier in the year prior to MOT, I needed new brake drums. I have friends in the trade but it still took 4 weeks to source the drums as they were in very short supply here in the UK and for this reason I'm loath to CNC down my perfectly good drums. As they are available quite freely, does anyone know if beetle drums fit the same splines as a 924, And yes before anyone points it out I know the bolt hole pcd will be wrong but I do have a 2.5 axis CNC !
If it all works out I'll have CAD files at the end, if anyone will want them.... _________________ 1981 NA 924 - Daily driver/sprints/hillclimbs
VW golf GTI Sprints/hillclimbs
Audi A4 2.6 |
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gohim
Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 4459 Location: Rialto, CA
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:08 am Post subject: |
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The 924 rear brake drums are actually originally from the VW Type 181 (was marketed as the "Thing" here in the US). |
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