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Phantom Grip
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simsport  



Joined: 06 Nov 2002
Posts: 573
Location: UK Warrington

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 11:21 am    Post subject: Phantom Grip Reply with quote

I bought a Phantom Grip unit for the sprint car. It is for the 944S2 box I have fitted in place of the snailshell.
It fitted very well after a mild tweak and (unlike some stuff I have bought and have complained about) seems to do just what they said it would.

Its an odd looking device. Not a true LSD but a locking block assembly which rotates to deliver cornering grip and locks in a straight line.

At a recent test day the car pulled better than ever before out of the corners and exit speeds were well up.

I cant say if it will keep working well yet, neither can I say if it will wear the diff at all. However it does seems to work....cool!

Cheers
Simon
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Raceboy  



Joined: 01 Mar 2004
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Location: Estonia, Europe

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How much did it cost and was it difficult to mount?
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81turbo  



Joined: 03 Nov 2002
Posts: 1065
Location: Oakland, CA

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well it looks like your spider gears will be toast soon.

http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=5706&highlight=phantom+grip
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simsport  



Joined: 06 Nov 2002
Posts: 573
Location: UK Warrington

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 9:58 am    Post subject: Gears Reply with quote

Remains to be seen.
The Phantom Grip unit has been used on numerous front wheel drive cars over a number of years. Several magazine tests saw increased performance and I did not see any reference to damaged spider gears.

There are always tales of this failure or that...however rarely does anyone have direct evidence unless they try it themselves.
So I am, and will tell you all if it buggers up the diff.

I should point out though that the blocks in the unit are self lubricating. As long as the diff is well lubed itself I cant see a direct cause for spider gear wear. The gears do lock themselves in a standard diff, just one side only. I asked a UK gearbox specialist about the unit and his exact words were "what a good idea, cant think why nobody else here has done this"..

So, like I say may be good, may be bad...but worth a try.
Will keep you posted.

Cheers
Simon
PS It costs about 350 dollars and fits very easliy.
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Lizard  



Joined: 03 Nov 2002
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Location: Abbotsford BC. Canada

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the main reason for spider gears becoming toast is that when they install the diff they do not shim it properly
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J1NX3D  



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Posts: 1333
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well the best place to test stuff is in competition! thanks Simsport for taking the hit for the team!!
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simsport  



Joined: 06 Nov 2002
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Location: UK Warrington

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 8:00 pm    Post subject: Gulp! Reply with quote

Eeek....Gulp.....OK!
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Lizard  



Joined: 03 Nov 2002
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Location: Abbotsford BC. Canada

PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 3:20 am    Post subject: Re: Gulp! Reply with quote

simsport wrote:
Eeek....Gulp.....OK!


does that mean you just threw it in without having it porperly shimmed (not a cheap process and apparently not able to be done at home)?
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simsport  



Joined: 06 Nov 2002
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Location: UK Warrington

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:58 am    Post subject: Shims Reply with quote

Er...no.
The Phantom grip is not like other diffs in that it does not require the diff to be shimmed.
Shims in the diff are for the relationship between the gears within and not the Phantom Grip which has a specified clearance before the retaining (grenade!) pins are removed.
So you see no shimming of the diff is required. Although it might be that you will want to shim the springs in the Phantom Grip unit to get best performance.

I did much as you said. Roughly measured the clearance before the grenade pins were removed and realised that there was enough but not too much such that the spring pressure of the unit would not fail to deliver the locking effect.

I did spend some time grinding the gear faces to a smooth finish to prevent unever wear (friction?) and get best performance.

Look, I know everyone is cynical about these units. I am a little myself, but rather than suggesting I'm a fool for buying it, or fitting it my way lets see if it works. It may and it may not, time will tell and if you and everyone else is correct I'll owe you a pint (not all of you!).

Cheers
Simon
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numbbers  



Joined: 05 Nov 2002
Posts: 1910
Location: Highlands Ranch, Colorado

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am with Sim on this one. He is brave enough to try it, and we will all learn from his experience. Thank you very much, Sim.
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Lizard  



Joined: 03 Nov 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do applaud you for trying it, but I thought that the damage it caused wasnt from not shimming the gears, but shimming the ring gear so that it got proper contact with the pinion gear as if there is too much play there it will eat itself apart. or am I mistaken on this.
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simsport  



Joined: 06 Nov 2002
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Location: UK Warrington

PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 3:38 am    Post subject: Diffs Reply with quote

Ah, I see what you mean.
Well, you are of course spot on for in a normal aftermarket LSD fitting the ring gear and pinion relationship may change and shimming may then be needed.
Sorry I misunderstood you.
The Phantom Grip however does not change this as it sits inside the original diff casing and the crown wheel and pinion remain as before.

Cheers
Simon
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Lizard  



Joined: 03 Nov 2002
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Location: Abbotsford BC. Canada

PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Diffs Reply with quote

simsport wrote:
Ah, I see what you mean.
Well, you are of course spot on for in a normal aftermarket LSD fitting the ring gear and pinion relationship may change and shimming may then be needed.
Sorry I misunderstood you.
The Phantom Grip however does not change this as it sits inside the original diff casing and the crown wheel and pinion remain as before.

Cheers
Simon


ah ok makes more sence now.
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turbobob9242  



Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Posts: 134
Location: Crystal Lake, IL, USA

PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 1:11 pm    Post subject: RE phantomgrip Reply with quote

Simsport,

Is the phantom grip unit sill working? I have been thinking about getting on too but am not sure if it holds up!
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simsport  



Joined: 06 Nov 2002
Posts: 573
Location: UK Warrington

PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:29 am    Post subject: Phantom Grip Reply with quote

It does seems to be working well. If you check the performance upgrades section you can see a photo of the car drifting and leaving two lines of rubber.
The car has won in 3 out of 4 events I have driven it in, and the fourth was when my brother-in-law drove it!

Cheers
Simon
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