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Wow, I don't even know where to start....*VIDEO ATTATCHED*
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flosho  



Joined: 01 Jul 2004
Posts: 3153
Location: Eau Claire, Wisconsin

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 3:33 am    Post subject: Wow, I don't even know where to start....*VIDEO ATTATCHED* Reply with quote

I'm starting to throw more and more money at this car and I am running out. More problems that need to get fixed...

Yesterday after getting the car back and dropping a couple 100 dollar bills on a repair bill, I drove it approximately 40 miles home to my apartment. It ran fine, or at least I think it did. It had the normal loud exhaust note(sounds like it has a hole somewhere) It sort of sputters as its climbing in the RPM... The car doesn't sputter but the exhaust note does.) Anyways it drove fine. I was seeing about 18inHG at idle in neutral and 20 when driving and I let off the gas. It was hitting 7 psi right on target at 3k RPM. But sometimes it would idle at 15in HG too??

I got home and let it sit for a while then me and a friend went out to the mall. It drove the 10-15 miles to the mall perfectly not a bump. When I got out of the mall the trouble began. The car didn't start right up like it usually does. I cranked it for 5-7 seconds and it didn't start, I turned the key off and did it again and it started up, a little stumble and then right up to 900-1000rpm. It drove good again for about 2 minutes then it decided act up. When I came to a stop it felt like it was going to die, the idle would drop way down to about 200-400 and idle like a cammed V8. I didn't want it to die, so I kept the revs up and almost had to "launch" from each stop light. Anyways as this was happening the Oil Pressure gauge would bottom out as soon as I put the clutch pedal in, however the dummy light did not come on. When I got home I let it idle a bit at the 200-400 range and it never did die (left it for about 30 seconds) then i shut it off.

I let it sit for maybe an hour and then went back out to start it and it started up and I let it idle for 30 seconds and it was idling fine, when I disengaged the clutch the oil pressure gauge didn't flinch. Thats good!

I hop in it today to go to school and it started up fine again(right away like usaul it fired up) and drove it 10 miles to school without a hicup. I come out for lunch and after a few minutes it starts idling crappy. Way down by 200-400 RPM range. I got it back to the school and as I rolled into the parking lot the RPM's dipped and the oil pressure gauge dropped and the dummy light(oil pressure) came on! I revved it up a bit right away so it went off and I took off and then I rolled into the parking space the car just died on me! Idle went wayy down and then the oil light, battery light, e-brake light came on. I started it up again and it fired right up but only for a second as it died again, same way.. studder, oil pressure drop then killed. I had class so I left it there. When I get done I'm going to see how it runs and if I can make it home.

Short version.

first: lopie idle between 200-400rpm then oil pressure gauge bottoming out with no dummy light being turned on

then: lopie idle between 200-400rpm then oil pressure gauge and dummy light coming on and finally killing on me when I was going about 5mph. Started back up and wouldn't idle.

Im going to check the 12 pin DITC or w/e in the dash and then check the white connector by the distributer. Make sure the connections are good, as thats what I was told todo.

Anyone else experience these symptoms? Any suggestions?



Here's the video.

https://uwc.courses.wisconsin.edu/pages/personal/250741/Porsche2.mpg
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Last edited by flosho on Fri Oct 15, 2004 6:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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924RACR  



Joined: 29 Jul 2001
Posts: 8334
Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would agree that you're headed in the right likely direction - electrical funkiness/gremlins.

Based on the running problems alone, I was almost thinking fuel pump power supply (relay, fuse, and wiring issues). But then your mention of what's going on with the oil pressure makes me wonder if it's more fundamental and widespread than that, like bad grounds.

Medford in Oregon, correct? Or Mass? Plenty of water and corrosion?

While you're digging under the dash checking the DITC connections, consider possibly bad dash grounds as well... the ones behind the fusebox.

I wouldn't be too worried about the actual oil pressure, though the readings are a possible good indication of issues like I said... the engine's just not designed to idle at 200rpm, obviously.

When you've got the opportunity, I'd be recommending going over all the grounds as discussed in the Tech FAQ.
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flosho  



Joined: 01 Jul 2004
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Location: Eau Claire, Wisconsin

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well,I haven't searched yet, but On the way ome it idled funny right when I started it up, but I revved it abit and it smoothed out. The bad idle would come back once in a while but now i have some oil ddripping from by the turbo. The semi cool part, but mostly bad cuz now I have a new problem. Every time I shift, or hit boost and let off, I hear a Pssst noise. Exactly like a BOV! Makes me think I have a bad seal or something with the wastegat. It builds boost fine, and it gets up and goes, but it PSSSHT's now and spurts a little puff of smoke out the tail pipe everytime.
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924RACR  



Joined: 29 Jul 2001
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Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd actually first look at the intake boots (from below) - might have come loose at the turbo! Between the turbo and fuel meter. There's usually some oil in the intake, that's where it could be dripping from. Not likely the exhaust - that's a louder more consistent than intake leak, and makes it really slow to build boost.
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jpab924  



Joined: 03 Nov 2002
Posts: 1538
Location: Crown pt. IN. 50 miles southeast of Chicago Ill.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

flosho wrote:
I have a new problem. Every time I shift, or hit boost and let off, I hear a Pssst noise. .


I could swear I read someone having a similar problem like this a whle ago...something to do with a crack in a vacuum line that would open up occasionally?
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jpab924  



Joined: 03 Nov 2002
Posts: 1538
Location: Crown pt. IN. 50 miles southeast of Chicago Ill.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

btw, a low steady vac. reading can be an idication of a manifold vacuum leak.

Heres an excellent page on vac. guage readings I have posted before.

http://www.s10blazers.com/vacuumtest.htm
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flosho  



Joined: 01 Jul 2004
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Location: Eau Claire, Wisconsin

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So maybe the low idle at times is due to the connector's connections being corroded.


*edit* What should my car idle at in terms of vacuum? At start up and warmed up?
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Smoothie  



Joined: 01 Jan 2003
Posts: 8030
Location: DE (the one near MD, PA, NJ)

PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get 17-18"hg at idle once it's warmed-up. From cold start I initially get a faster idle and approx 20"hg for about 10 seconds, then it slows down and both the idle speed and vacuum fluctuate - with vacuum moving between 10-15"hg as I recall, then like I said when warm the idle and vac even out with vac at 17-18"hg.

Also check the bracket where the lower pressure pipe mounts to the front of the block. [url=http://www.geocities.com/smoothies931pics2/P5060033s.txt]
<click>
[/url]
If that connection's undone, you can have a large leak where the turbo outlet goes into that pipe. That will throw off your air:fuel as well as produce a sound like air escaping if the pipes are together at lower speeds and get pushed apart by boost pressure at higher speeds/rpms.
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flosho  



Joined: 01 Jul 2004
Posts: 3153
Location: Eau Claire, Wisconsin

PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smoothie wrote:
I get 17-18"hg at idle once it's warmed-up. From cold start I initially get a faster idle and approx 20"hg for about 10 seconds, then it slows down and both the idle speed and vacuum fluctuate - with vacuum moving between 10-15"hg as I recall, then like I said when warm the idle and vac even out with vac at 17-18"hg.

Also check the bracket where the lower pressure pipe mounts to the front of the block. [url=http://www.geocities.com/smoothies931pics2/P5060033s.txt]
<click>
[/url]
If that connection's undone, you can have a large leak where the turbo outlet goes into that pipe. That will throw off your air:fuel as well as produce a sound like air escaping if the pipes are together at lower speeds and get pushed apart by boost pressure at higher speeds/rpms.



Actually that sounds right about on with what mine is/was. Now it fluctuates do to me revving it to keep the R's above 500.


*edit* I have a video of it starting.. and barely idling if anyone wants it...and can host it for me!

*EDIT AGAIN* Video is hosted at bottom of first post.
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Last edited by flosho on Fri Oct 15, 2004 7:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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flosho  



Joined: 01 Jul 2004
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Location: Eau Claire, Wisconsin

PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I checked the 12 pin connector on the DITC, it looked almost new! I plugged it back in and still idles horrible. I have a video of the PSSHT sound too.

Could this be as simple as a fouled spark plug or bad wire?? It almost sounds like its "missing". I checked the white connectors by the coil, and they are clean/good also.
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numbbers  



Joined: 05 Nov 2002
Posts: 1910
Location: Highlands Ranch, Colorado

PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The sound you are talking about, may be just the turbo whine. If your turbo is working correctly, you should get a whine (almost a whistle) sound, when you let off of the throttle to shift. It is caused by the throttle valves closing and putting all of that manifold pressure against the vanes on the compressor wheel, before the bypass valve has a chance to open. That is normal, and one of the neat sounds that come with a turbocharged car.

The idle problem sounds like a vacuum leak. Check all of your rubber elboes on the vacuum pipes. One of them is probably split.
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flosho  



Joined: 01 Jul 2004
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Location: Eau Claire, Wisconsin

PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The PSSSHT sound wasn't sounding before... and now it does. I will check some of the videos.

BOV Sound

Also tonite on my ride home a buddy of mine who was following said the exhaust shot a bit of a flame out the back. This is probably connected to the BOV sound, as I can hear it backfire or gurggle a bit.

Vacuum leak causing the idle and possibly the BOV "woosh" sound, which affects the a/f reading and causes the miss/backfire? Which grounds should I check first? Which would be the most problematic.

Tomorrow I'm going to check the rubber 90 elbows.
Check the spark plugs(How do I check for detonation?)
Check the boots on the turbo to the air meter.
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Smoothie  



Joined: 01 Jan 2003
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Location: DE (the one near MD, PA, NJ)

PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My first suspect is still that the connection between the turbo and that lower pressure pipe is not secure. Did you check it yet? To check it quickly, just grab the pipe near where it makes the 90* bend down toward the turbo and see if you can lift up and push down on it. Mine's attached the way it should be and it's solid - doesn't even move 1/8" in relation to the engine. A leak there would account for your PSSSHT sound if like I said, the pipe's together, then at higher boost it gets pushed apart. It also accounts for your flame out the back because when a large amount of air is allowed to escape under boost from anywhere between the turbo and engine, there will be a coinciding brief period of extra rich air:fuel mix. (That's because air that's been metered is no longer in the system.) An air leak from the same area at idle would result in an extra lean air:fuel mix because air that's not been metered is allowed in to the system. Everything you're seeing - the "PSSSHT", the flame, missing, backfire, hesitation are all attributable to a bad connection at that joint and if not there, then a large leak somewhere between turbo and head that's closed part of the time but opened both during periods of idle with low vacuum and high rpm with boost. I would say it's at the connection I described - initially at idle the connection is leaking until you rev it up which produces enough vacuum airflow to pull the joint together, then it stays together in the mid-rpms, then gets pushed apart at higher boost resulting in the PSSSHT, backfire and flame. Forget about spark plugs and everything else. You're looking for a large leak.
Also, a leak at the boot between air meter and turbo would only account for poor running at idle caused by a lean mix - it doesn't account for the "PSSSHT" sound or the flame.
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flosho  



Joined: 01 Jul 2004
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Location: Eau Claire, Wisconsin

PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smoothie, I think I wiggled the piece of pipe you are speaking of and it has alot of play side to side. I think its been like that since I owned it.
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Smoothie  



Joined: 01 Jan 2003
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Location: DE (the one near MD, PA, NJ)

PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it's no fun-easy task getting in there to resecure that bracket. -So to first verify that that's where the problem was [when I had it] I used a long piece of green vinyl covered aluminum wire... Folded it in half and looped the fold around a bolt at the top of the pressure pipe assembly like this -
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/smoothies931pics/detail?.dir=bdb3&.dnm=28da.jpg&.src=ph
then with vise-grip pliers, twist-tied the other end around the bottom of the turbos' compressor -
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/smoothies931pics/detail?.dir=bdb3&.dnm=604e.jpg&.src=ph

That'll hold the joint together. If with that, the problem's fixed, you know that bracket needs attention. I actually went for several months with just the wire holding it together, then combined the bracket fix with another job - timing belt and tensioner replacement. It's good to combine jobs like those since they're both in the same area and involve removing the same stuff to get in. Water pump replacement's another good thing to combine it with.
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