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Roll cage
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PORSCHEV  



Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 1901
Location: Cedar Lake Nova Scotia, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 11:27 pm    Post subject: Roll cage Reply with quote

Can someone explain the widespread desire to have a rollbar in a street car...I currently have a guys Mustang in my shop doing a paint job, and he wants to put a roll bar in as well??? I can understand if you are racing...but why for the street? I have a Camaro for drag racing and it doesn't even have a roll bar....you don't need one until you are under the 11 sec mark....it it just more unwanted weight!
I hear alot of smutt talk about things that are considered "rice" on the board...doesn't it seem "ricey" if you have no need for a roll bar in a street car?
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1976 924
5 lug conversion, 17'C2 wheels,custom body work,327 vette engine.

1978-#53 "D" track racer.
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mrgtturbo  



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 521
Location: Waterville, ME

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2004 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think it's at all ricey to have a rollbar in a Porsche.
Porsche's are built to handle well... (well beyond most cars), I don't think the adverage driver, (of domestic cars), feels secure pushing anycar to it's near limits. Thus when a when aquainting a car that truly performs they have a hard time to letting go of the knowledge they are breaking their mark. This is just a thought.

On a personal note.
I've pushed every car I've owned to it's limits once or twice, (atleast), just to see what it's got it in.... until the 931.
I have a pretty well modded PGT. Not the fastest car in town, but for those who drag race their cars I do have bragging rights if I so wished them.
Example.... a highly modded DelSol, super light car. Sporting true carbon fiber everywhere to lighten it up more. Alot of work was done under the hood. He was beating everyone in the group who gets together. Alot of these guys wanted to race me... they would try and egg me on at lights, everywhere. One night I said, ok.... One race, if Ben wants to race his DelSol.
On launch we were fighting each other for that couple of feet until full boost in 2nd, I started pulling ahead, by 3rd I could see him in my rearview. I feel comfertable in this car. I go out to play where no one is around and drift it around. It's a torquey little SOB... but it's front wheel drive.
Shortly after I bought my 931 everyone wanted to race that. I always said... no way. In my mind I thought... 1st of it has a slow launch, that would be a little embarassing, 2ndly, I don't want to beat on this car.
Well...
One night I was egged on a little too much. There was no one around but the person I was at the light with. We were facing a wide open corner to enter a new road. Could very easily see everything, and all the way up the other road across the bridge from where we sat. I was like fine... one time, just like with the PGT... 1 run then no one will bug me again.
I figured we would punch down on it after the turn, we took the turn rather slow.as we were coming out of the turn he punched it, instincktively I did too. Only he went straight, my turbo spooled and I started coming around. Once you wip that ass end sideways it's a combination of how you steer and play the gas to if you come straight.
I brought the car straight pretty quick, but I was a little sloppy in doing so. I was aimed right as his passenger door for probably nearly 50 feet down the road. That's when I realized there is alot more to these little turbo charged cars then people think.
I learnt a new respect for my car that night. My lesson learnt... Take corners with care because these turbos jump from little boost to full boost near instantly.
IMO... the only safe way one could learn complete cornering control of a 931 for road course ralley racing is to play in a safe place, and feel secure. A roll bar would definatly help with the security part of it.
Don't get me wrong... I have good control of my car now, but I wouldn't ever drift it around a long corner, (even on a bet), besides... I want this car to be in my posession for life. My PGT... if it's safe... I'll play.
Never the less... my point is... if you want to play, play safe.
An aircraft wing on a FWD Honda = rice.
Wide tires on a Fesiva = rice
All depends on applacation.
A roll bar is far from rice even on a go-cart.
Nothing ricey about playing safe.

~ Random thought in my head.... Weddings, rice = unsafe, ricey ~
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Joes924Racer  



Joined: 03 Nov 2002
Posts: 11960
Location: Oregon, Denver Colorado native!

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2004 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Play safe. What if you like get hit by someone in a truck.
I want a rollbar sys. Really Im gonna have one made.
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1979 porsche 924 Na
1980 porsche Turbo 931GT Replica
Have u ever driven a turbo.
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kaffine  



Joined: 13 Jun 2003
Posts: 644
Location: Las Vegas

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2004 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why wear a seat belt on the street then if the track is the only place that wrecks happen?

On the street alot of pepole are racing then you have idiots on cell phones, reading the paper, putting on makup, getting dressed, shaving, and who knows what else. As I stated in another post it is very common for me to see cars going the wrong way down a divided highway, backing down on ramps. The center divider on the freeway is almost completely black in areas from tire marks, it's common for cars to be going over 100mph weaving through traffic. I've seen an wreck out front of my house a car was going to fast and didn't make the corner hit a wall taking off the right front tire the car didn't stop for another 5 houses. In one day I was almost hit 3 diffrent times by pepole running red lights. I have seen a 1/2 ton pickup towing a gravel trailer meant for a semi truck, at work there was an idiot that was going to tow a full size semi truck from our lot in vegas to califronia using a tow truck made to tow cars he didn't even make it off the lot before hitting a bump and having it come loose but that didn't stop him he resecured it and tried again also on the back of the semi was a pallet that wasn't tied down with the cylinder heads of the truck on it, thankfully one of the mechanics called the cops and had them stop him. What do you mean there is no need for a roll bar on the street?
I don't only want a roll cage in my street car I want my street car to be a tank.

If roll cages can save someones life when there car hits a wall at 200mph why wouldn't help when the car is going 75mph? I think they should be mandated along with 6 point harness and helmets. There are around 6,000,000 auto accidents a year resulting in 40,000 deaths. I also think there should be mandatory yearly safety inspections for all cars you would be suprised by how many cars don't have working brakes and the owners don't care and wont fix them but still do 90 down the freeway.
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The best desciption of an atom boils down to something unknown is doing we don't know what.
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mrgtturbo  



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 521
Location: Waterville, ME

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2004 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kaffine wrote:
you would be suprised by how many cars don't have working brakes and the owners don't care and wont fix them but still do 90 down the freeway.


Maybe they have a rollcage.
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PORSCHEV  



Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 1901
Location: Cedar Lake Nova Scotia, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here in Nova Scotia, Canada...you DO have to have your car pass an anual safety inspection. That does not make up for the lack of driving skills that alot of drivers suffer from.

I am glad the to hear you guys want the roll cage for safety reasons rather than to look cool. I personally think if your THAT worried about dieing in a car wreck that you want to have a roll cage, a 5 point harness in your car and wear a helmet etc...... you might want to stay home...lol
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1976 924
5 lug conversion, 17'C2 wheels,custom body work,327 vette engine.

1978-#53 "D" track racer.
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Diesel  



Joined: 03 Nov 2002
Posts: 1061
Location: Ellington,CT

PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PORSCHEV wrote:
Here in Nova Scotia, Canada...you DO have to have your car pass an anual safety inspection. That does not make up for the lack of driving skills that alot of drivers suffer from.

I am glad the to hear you guys want the roll cage for safety reasons rather than to look cool. I personally think if your THAT worried about dieing in a car wreck that you want to have a roll cage, a 5 point harness in your car and wear a helmet etc...... you might want to stay home...lol


Agreed, these cars are small enough that taking up interior space with a roll cage when you don't need it is ridiculous.
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Joes924Racer  



Joined: 03 Nov 2002
Posts: 11960
Location: Oregon, Denver Colorado native!

PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have any of you seen the tube bender harbor freight has.
Bends pipe up tp 2" in dia. only $69.00.
Can I at least have a roll bar in back with tubing that exstends down to the rear frame.
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1979 porsche 924 Na
1980 porsche Turbo 931GT Replica
Have u ever driven a turbo.


Last edited by Joes924Racer on Wed Jan 14, 2004 3:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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CBass  



Joined: 03 Nov 2002
Posts: 2807
Location: Vancouver, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A roll cage also stiffens the body of the car, as well as protecting you in a crash. They don't take up much space, they don't weigh all that much, and they might just save your life.

If someone wants to retrofit an airbag into their car, are you going to criticize them for going to the trouble and expense of retrofitting a safety system that is just going to add weight?
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Mikri184  



Joined: 12 Sep 2003
Posts: 746
Location: Ferndale, WA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 3:21 pm    Post subject: Roll Bar Reply with quote

I agree with CBASS, Safety is never a bad idea, even if the motives are all ricey
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mrgtturbo  



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 521
Location: Waterville, ME

PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 3:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Roll Bar Reply with quote

Mikri184 wrote:
I agree with CBASS, Safety is never a bad idea, even if the motives are all ricey


What do you think of chrome hubcaps? They can protect your rims for dings?
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edh  



Joined: 19 Nov 2003
Posts: 240
Location: Derby, UK

PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only thing that worries me about a cage in a road car is the risk of hitting your head on the cage in a crash

- AFAIK, lots of serious injuries in crashes are caused by driver/passenger heads hitting the car body. Adding a cage brings it quite a bit closer. Three point belts don't hold you as tight as a race harness.

I'm thinking of adding a cage to mine - It does make sense for a road car that gets lots of track use.

A compromise might just be a rear bar? - improves rollover protection but doesn't endanger driver/front passenger
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CBass  



Joined: 03 Nov 2002
Posts: 2807
Location: Vancouver, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is lots of headroom in the 924 though, and if it's really a big issue, just wrap foam around the cage. It might look a little funny, but if it saves your life, then it's worth it.

Also, it is a performance upgrade, and some of us do value function over form
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-nick  



Joined: 16 Nov 2002
Posts: 2699
Location: Cambridge, MA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The difference is you wear a helmet on the track. The fancy high density foam is still going to crack your skull if your head smacks it without a helmet. IMO, a full cage is dumb for the street. A rollbar is worthwhile if it provides chassis strength and/or you need anchors for a harness when you got to track days. Otherwise, it screams look at me I'm in a "racecar"...

-nick
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Lizard  



Joined: 03 Nov 2002
Posts: 9364
Location: Abbotsford BC. Canada

PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

if you are really paranoid about safety for the street then go for it, if you are going to be racing, not auto X or DE but bumper bumper racing, then a rollcage w/ side bars is yes a must, but if you do add that then you also get 6 point harnesses and always wear a helmet in the vehicle, even if you are just going to the store
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