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4/5/6 point racing harnesses
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Joes924Racer  



Joined: 03 Nov 2002
Posts: 11964
Location: Oregon, Denver Colorado native!

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2004 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Kind of exciting dont you think.
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924RACR  



Joined: 29 Jul 2001
Posts: 8273
Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:15 am    Post subject: NO FRIKKEN WAY!!! Reply with quote

5 POINT IS NOT AS GOOD AS 6 POINT!!!

Can't scream loud enough about this one. Neither are 6-points only for formula cars.

I attended a presentation to the Detroit Region SCCA by one of the guys who developed the HANS device, all about crash safety in racecars. Incredibly interesting, included crash test footage (same presentation as they give to pro drivers).

Specific to 5-pt vs 6-pt. He discussed how they saw a lot of a specific type of injury (can't remember exactly what it was) in stock cars vs. formula cars. On further investigation, they figured out it was due to the stock cars being built with only 5-pt harnesses, whereas the formula style cars were exclusively 6-point harnesses. It's directly from the mechanics of the crash. You cannot stop the head from moving until you stop the upper body from moving (re: head restraints). You cannot stop the upper body (shoulder straps) until you stop the lower body from moving (lap belt and sub belts). It's just like a parachute or rappelling harness, if you;ve ever done either. That's how the 6-pt works better; stops the pelvis sooner, due to less stretch, less velocity generated, better decel control, then the upper body moves sooner (IIRC the specific injury was to the upper-body).

Yes, confort can be an issue too. But the main issue is crash protection. It's as bad as using a proper pair of shoulder belts vs. a Y-shaped belt (not allowed anymore IIRC).

Of course, to get any benefit out of them, the belts MUST be properly installed. Incorrectly installed belts can be useless. I should add, after reviewing this presentation, I went home and made a number of changes to my rigging. Belts don't work in shear or in compression, only in tension. In order for the sub belts to work, they must be stretched straight when worn (prior to impact). And as tight as you can stand.

With respect to this, as well as with respect to comfort, there's one restraint system which stands head and shoulders above all others - Willans. They are the only restraints that I have seen with adjustable sub straps. They also loop much more around the thigh than the crotch, keeping "The Boys" much happier in long races! Not to mention facilitating driver changes in enduros. Wish I had them, but I bought a set of 6-pt belts from RJS Racing (local to me). I have to go get them re-webbed this spring, since I crashed my car and the belts are already 3 years old.

Hope that helps clarify some painful misconceptions. I recommend those of you with 5-pt belts replace the sub strap portion with a dual sub strap before you hit the track this year - pretty much every belt manufacturer that I've seen does sell the components separately.
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Vince Ponz  



Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 3581
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have both in my car. For the street the standard belt and the 5 point for the track.
Doesn't MOMO make them. If so I could get them at a discount from my buddy at VAS. Let me know the best price and we could beat them.
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Lizard  



Joined: 03 Nov 2002
Posts: 9364
Location: Abbotsford BC. Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2004 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

see the insurance up here will recognize the aftermarket restraint system w/o a problem HOWEVER it must be DOT approved, if it isn't then you have problems, although they really only check the belts if you are in an accident and are claiming major injury, although if they complain about it, get a lawer and have them prove that your aftermarket restaint system actually caused less damage but good luck, and if it is DOT approved though they dont care, but it is a good idea to take the car to a local shop and have a vehicle inspection done, and have them verify that the restaint is attached correctly and is safe
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dgz924s  



Joined: 03 Nov 2002
Posts: 592
Location: Kansas

PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2004 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vaughan. I don't think the issue was good or bad. This was posted under the understanding that the poster wished to use 5 or 6 point harness for daily street use. That is why I replied 6 point is overkill and it is in this case. Dallas
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kaffine  



Joined: 13 Jun 2003
Posts: 644
Location: Las Vegas

PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2004 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why is 6 point overkill for street use. I'm far more likely to need a good seat belt on the street than on the track considering how the pepole drive around here.
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Smoothie  



Joined: 01 Jan 2003
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Location: DE (the one near MD, PA, NJ)

PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2004 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just thinking... 5 or 6 point belts, roll cage and helmet (and head restraint) work together in a race situation, but what happens in a street situation when 1 of those items is removed, namely the helmet (and head restraint)? Doesn't this leave you more prone to neck injury if your body is strapped in tight, but the head is allowed to flop around? -And you're also left more prone to cracking your skull against an installed roll cage if you delete the helmet.
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Lizard  



Joined: 03 Nov 2002
Posts: 9364
Location: Abbotsford BC. Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2004 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

good point Smoothie and this came up over on rennlist, for a full roal cage this will cause more problems if you dont wear the helmet, however I think that leigh is just going with the rear cage which sits back from the driver and therefor it is far enough away that he isn't going to knock some sence into him as per the missing of the helmet for movement, the movement would be made alittle more sudden than the factory belt but would have less to hit, although a helmet would be nice it would not be manditory,
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dgz924s  



Joined: 03 Nov 2002
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Location: Kansas

PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2004 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kaffine wrote:
Why is 6 point overkill for street use. I'm far more likely to need a good seat belt on the street than on the track considering how the pepole drive around here.


I just think that every time I wished to run to the C store I have to fumble with 6 straps.
I don't care to have to explain to the cops after they stop me because they couldn't see my shoulder strap(stock). I am all for safety but the belts that are stock do save lives! And what kind of street driving is being done to need a harness period? Cost and labor, to do it right a roll bar at minimum is 300.00, the belts another 2 hundred or so. But that's just me....Dal
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kaffine  



Joined: 13 Jun 2003
Posts: 644
Location: Las Vegas

PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Come to Vegas no one knows how to drive.

The reason I want a roll cage and 6 point harness.
Yesterday I was almost hit 3 times by pepole running red lights one couldn't stop the other 2 saw that the guy in the turn lane was going so they went straight. I've seen cars back down onramps turn around half way up an onramp, drive on the wrong side of a divided highway. The concrete center divider on the freeways are black from tire marks near any coner and have tire marks all over in other areas. We had a school bus total a big bright yellow tow truck in the middle of an accident scene with flares out and the light bar on the tow truck flashing. In 6 years I have seen 4 accidents out front of my house one of the cars hit a wall taking off the right front tire the car didn't stop for another 6 houses down. Freeway traffic often reaches triple digit speeds. I have seen a F150 towing a semi size dump truck trailer. We had a normal size tow truck one that normally tows neons and the like at most a 1 ton truck come to where I work to tow a full size semi truck to califonia thankfully the mechanics where I work are smart enough to know that wont work and called the cops the guy didn't even make it off our lot before having to resecure the truck after going over a bump then he made it off our lot it a small dip in the road and had to resecure it again that's when the cops showed up and made him back up the 20feet to our lot and drop the truck.
The truck had a palate on the back with the cylinder head on it the head wasn't secured to the palate and the palate wasn't secured to the truck.

Hell I don't just want the roll cage and 6 point harness I want it installed in a tank.
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