924Board.org

[D Hook]

Rob E.--Thanks for expressing yourself so reasonably. I agree with your opinion that maybe this is long overdue but I don't agree with the reason. I think it's long overdue because of the odds were against us.

I don't think it's because we, as Americans, are not aware of what else is going on in the world; we are drowning in information here, compared to some other countries. But we want our government to take a hands-off attitude towards other countries affairs unless it effects us directly or, in the case of Iraq, indirectly. To me, that's the sign of good leadership in this country, sound judgement, not to send people to die into every little skirmish around. And I do believe we are more informed about these little skirmishes than anyone else. But we're a peace-loving and freedom-loving bunch of people who are slow to anger.

When I listen to the discussions of what our "plan of action" should be from others where I work, it's the same thing; get in there do the job and get out. That's always been, for as long as I can recall, our position on every war or skirmish we've been in. And for most of them, it worked. (VietNam had all kinds of political traps at home, the recent police actions in Somalia, etc have been misguided, to say the least, IMHO) But that's the only way we KNOW how to fight a war. Unlike the British and Russians, our goal is NOT the occupation of Afganistan.

As far as protection of the homefront, I think it would be imprudent of Americans to expect to be protected by our government from the possibility of any kind of danger of another (or past) terrorists actions. Not without suspending the constitution and declaring Martial Law. But I do think they're willing to put up with the present restrictions that have been brought about, especially on the airlines. I don't think you'll hear, so much, the general population complaining about losing their freedom as much as you'll hear the howling from retailers and business people if our movements and freedoms are restricted. Right now, it's not so much the customers complaining, it's the fact that the airlines are losing money hand over fist trying to make the planes as safe as possible. I'm more concerned about how the media will present this to the general public. Will they constantly harp on the fact that someone has to wait an extra 20 minutes to have a bag searched or will they show how Americans have pulled together and are willing to be inconvenienced for the sake of their safety and others.

But I hope you are not correct that Americans don't have the resolve to see this through. It will be hard to keep focused on this action when there will be very little in the way of progress reports. And God help us all if this turns into another one of the toothless "War on Drugs!" campaigns or "War on Poverty" campaigns or other "War on (fill in the blank). If this is nothing more than public relations, it will fail and then, you're right, it will happen again.

BTW Rob, thanks for wearing the uniform. I did my stint in the Army a few years ago. Best time I ever had was going through boot camp. I got out at about the same time Iran took our hostages out of the embassy.

Has anyone else heard this quote from Bush when asked what our plan of attack was going to be: "I can tell you what we're NOT going to do. We're not going to shoot a $2 million dollar missile at a $10 tent to hit a camel in the butt!" Someone at work told me about it and I haven't heard it since but others say it's true. If he didn't say it, he should have. If he did, I'm making me a few t-shirts!

Also, as far as taking this to an appropriate forum, maybe Peter would want to put up a "Politically Incorrect" area of the page. Otherwise, I think "General Discussion" is as good a place as any for people with like interests to gather, exchange ideas and views about a topic that has touched so many lives. If you don't think you want to read about this......




THEN DON'T READ IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FOR CRISSAKES, NOBODY'S HOLDING YOUR FACE TO THE SCREEN, ARE THEY? YOU DO KNOW YOU DON'T HAVE TO READ EVERY %^&*&^#@#!# POST THAT COMES ON THIS BOARD, RIGHT? YOU DO KNOW HOW TO OPERATE THAT COMPUTER YOUR USING, RIGHT? MAYBE SOME OF US WHO SHARE THE INTEREST OF OWNING THE SAME CAR WOULD LIKE TO SHARE OUR THOUGHTS ABOUT AN EVENT WHERE OVER 6,000 AMERICANS LOST THEIR LIVES IN AN UNPROVOKED ATTACK ON THE LARGEST, MOST IMPORTANT CITY IN AMERICA! MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, THIS ISN'T ABOUT YOU... OR ABOUT CARS. BUT ABOUT HOW PEOPLE SHOULD TREAT EACH OTHER; WITH RESPECT AND CARING AND CONSIDERATION, YA' DAMN PINHEAD! CRAP!!! YOU PROBABLY DRIVE A 911, DON'T YA'. MAN, NOW YOU WENT AND PISSED ME OFF! MARTHA...WHERE'S MY PILLS?!!!.....

Okay, my wife says I have to apologize about the pinhead thing. Sorry. She says not to call Hungarians pinheads. She says not all Europeans are pinheads either and that just because some pinhead asked about taking this to "an appropriate" forum, that doesn't mean he's a pinhead. But the 911 thing still holds.

Besides, when things like this occur, the approriate forum is wherever you feel comfortable in the company of others with like interests. Perhaps, Teo, instead of calling you a pinhead, I should have asked you you're opinion on the recent events and how the people in your country have reacted to the news.

[ This Message was edited by: D Hook on 2001-09-21 22:11 ]

[eturbo924]

DHook Thank you for your service.... as well as all others that defended our great nation.

Eric

[Rick MacLaren]

Hey Dwak,

You said: Hey Rick Mac, the US is the biggest rice exporting nation in the world. What are Chevs, potato burners or Porsches, sour kraut burners?

Hmm. Well, I'd say that American cars are typically "Oil burners" and German cars, yes, are "Sour Kraut burners".

I think we have nearly reached agreement here. Moreover, I submit that Russian cars are slow and ugly, Italian cars are "Pasta burners", and Hungarian cars are NOT TO BE DISCUSSED IN THIS 924 AREA UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES NO MATTER WHAT!

[Peter_in_AU]

D Hook,

actually, I don't mind adding a "politically Incorrect" forum but I really don't think we need one. I agree that the General Discussions area is the right place to talk about non-924 stuff.

I don't have any problem with people talking about important things that have nothing to do with cars. 924s are a lot of fun and probably one of the world's best kept secrets but we all have real lives that are effected by real things and when something as important and tragic as last week happens it would be wierd if it wasn't discussed here.

I just basically shovel coal and keep the board running, Vaughan is still captain of the ship (whether he likes it or not )

We're all intellegent people and know what is appropriate here.

This new board must be one of the few discussion boards on the 'net where the administrators have never had to lock or delete a post.

I've never even thought it necessary to post a "rules of engagement" thingie on the "About the Board" forum.

This software has a word replacement feature to stop offensive words being used. I once thought that it would be fun to take all the words that get beeped on the Springer show and replace them with "Lars" but immediately realised that there would be no point because nobody uses those words here (still think it would have been funny tho).

I'll post to the "About" forum so everyone knows my views.

Peter.

[D Hook]

Peter:

I agree. But the part about replacing w/Lars would've been hilarious. Sorry Lars, just having fun at your expense.

I just heard that the pilots of one of the major airlines refused to take off because there were three passengers of Middle Eastern descent and the rest of the passengers were refusing to fly with them on board. The three were removed and interviewed by the FBI and put on a later flight.

If anyone has any curiousity about what your parents or grandparents went through during WWII after Pearl Harbor was bombed, you're probably living through the same thing they did.

And Teo, I really DO apologize for being offensive. It was meant more in jest than anything. And I think if would be informative for all of us to get another perspective. I just wish we had a member from the Middle East on here that could shed some light on this issue. Guess 924's are hard to find in Afganistan.

[numbers]

personnaly, I think that we should just stop anyone who is driving an auto not made in the good ol USA and confiscate and deport them. Oh! Wait a minute.

[Rick MacLaren]

With respect for what you've said DHook, I don't think you really need someone 'from the middle east' or, for example, of Muslim faith, to imagine what they might think of the USA. We've known for a while what some people in some other countries think of the USA.

If you carve up this problem into Right and Wrong, you can't solve it. It's been a shitty relationship with lots of resentment fueled by both sides.

To solve this one, you have to view each party as an equal participant in the relationship. Does the USA accept the terrorists as equal partners in this havoc? Do these other countries/terrorists view the USA as an equal partner in this havoc? Likely not. Hence, war.

It isn't about rightness or compromise or justice or wrongness or building a relationship (cause neither WANTS a relationship). It's about power. And the only way to win a power struggle is to exert enough force to dominate.

PS: By the way, for those who think that terrorists can't negotiate, or that building a relationship with terrorists is somehow AntiAmerican, take a look at Yassir Arafat, Sien Fien, or the IRA. In each case, only when the terrorists were brought to the bargaining table and treated as equal partners did peace begin to happen. However, sadly, the problem with these particular terrorists is that they don't have any demands, so there's nothing to negotiate. For them, it's gotta be all about power.

[D Hook]

Rick:

Very good observations. It is ALL about power. That and a fanatacism to eradicate all who do not share their beliefs. Intoleration of others religious beliefs is how this country came to be.

I'm not sure about the statement "...cause neither WANTS a relationship". I think, as a capitalist society, we want a relationship with anyone who has goods to buy/sell. But the wackos who did this to our country reject that relationship, whether out of spite, jealousy or pure hate spurred on by poverty. I guess if we could find a good use for rocks and sand, we could have a trade relationship with the Afgans. But we seem to have an abundance of both already. I need to do some research into just what Afganistan exports, if anything, besides terrorism. I believe they may have some oil reserves, too.

Which brings me to the next point. I wish that our countries leaders would use this opportunity to pour money into bringing alternative fuels to the market. By that I mean to work on setting up a distribution system for natural gas, other fuels so we can end this insane dependency on Middle Eastern oil. Now, before the flames start flying, let me clearly make two declarative statements:
1. I am not an environmentalist, activist, tree hugger or any of those other labels we love to toss around. I'm from Nebraska, the center of ethanol production and I like to burn fossil fuels with the best of them. We just mix it together to make the cocktail fuels. Works okay but I'd never put it in my 924.

2. I don't have an anti-war stance. I truly believe you can't live in this world and not get into a war at some point. I don't believe this is about oil anyway; as you said, it's about power. But not so much about our power vs. their power but rather their power vs. the power of the money we've been pumping into the robes of a few leaders and seeing their countrymen live in abject poverty while sheiks drive a different Ferrari for each day of the week.

But I am a realist. The taps in the Middle East WILL dry up sooner or later. I was just starting college, freshman year, when the first oil embargo hit. I told a friend of mine to watch the price of gas go to a buck within a few years. He bet me $100 it would NEVER go over $.50/gallon. I have that $100 bill (after I pried it out of him 10 years later when he finally got a decent job) sitting in a frame in front of me as I type this. OPEC has been one of the major problems in the Middle East that has fueled this hatred for the US. A LOT of money going into the pockets of a few and not helping relieve the suffering and poverty of the people, creating a seething hatred for the U.S. They see us as stealing all their resources to fuel a corrupt society while making the few leaders magnificently wealthy. They can't strike back at their leaders because they know their heads would be used for door stops. So they try to topple the source of the money. US. So Rick, you're right, there's alot of blame to go around for why these people hate us.

While we have the resolve and anger of the country mobilized, this is the time to go twelve-step and get us off this crazy dependence on foreign oil.

This in NO WAY excuses or justifies the attack that was made on us. There can be no excuse or justification for wiping out the hopes and dreams and lives of over 6,000 people and effect millions more directly and indirectly.

These opinion are mine, all mine! And I got plenty of 'em!

[cs]

alternative fuel is not a bad idea. ethanol/methanol fuel both burn a lot cleaner than gasoline and it does it while providing higher octane. i think it was the mach IV mustang prototype that ran off of methanol and had a switch where you could use regular gas, when it was on methanol it produced a lot more power and it's emissions went down to almost nothing. also, i believe it was during WWII, they had plans to convert over to alcohol, but the oil companies are really too strong.

[larso]

long overdue may be the correct or incorrect term, but I believe, in my opinion, myself, my thoughts, that if someone can pull off a scam like this, then the country is not secure enough, it isn't as if they just barely got away with this, they frigin did it with pride!

[larso]

By the way I am not bashing America, Canada is even worse!!! Our liberal goverment doesn't know an ass from an ear, on tv some foreing minister woman was saying how it wasn't illegal to have a fake passport in canada, what the hell is that supposed to mean!?