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Parias
Joined: 22 Jan 2020 Posts: 12 Location: Vejle
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Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2024 6:32 pm Post subject: 931 vs 924 CGT vs 944T |
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Apologies if I am opening repetitive thread, though I am in search of views on comparison between these 931, 924CGT and 944 Turbo. I read some articles online, I had two 924s and 944 N/A series I.
I really like the the "old dash" by now and drive mainly curvy country roads and at times motorways to get to where I am going in mountains. I liked the change in performance and breaking power as well as looks of 944 body in comparison to 924. Suspension setup is also great with some mods, which I suppose can be done on any of the cars to achieve pretty similar driving characteristics. At the same time I like that by driving with fun and excitement I am often times far from exceeding speed limits, so I am not necessary looking for comfort or performance as such but rather the emotion and excitement if that makes any sense
Logic dictates that it is time for 944 Turbo which seems to offer good compromise between body looks and new dash but brings more excitement with more power and better breaks. Perhaps I can even get one with AC. However, I feel missing on the old dash and hence wonder if 931 is a better choice? or keep on saving for ultimate experience with 924 Carrera GT? How usable these are these days with parts availability etc?
What are the experiences here in the forum and what are your opinions? _________________ 968CS
Was:
924 80'
924 82'
944 84'
"Standing in line is easy, finding your way isn't." |
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Cedric
Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 2677 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2024 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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Personally i think the 931 is more fun than a 951 for curvy road kind of use, more raw without powerstering, and its lighter and less insulated experience, not as good all around, and the 951 is easier to get really high hp numbers, i prefer the old dash, the new one looks like a 90s honda, though hvac is superior on the new dash. Some parts can be tricky and a pain to work on. Havent worked on a 951 yet though. For driving i wouldn't buy a GT, its so similar to 931, and you can make a 931 faster and better by fairly reasonable money. For the twisty roads we have here i dont feel much over 200hp is of much use in a light car, it only makes it easier to loose the license:) though i dont know your roads:)
This is based on Euro car experience, which is quite different from the US spec ones on many planes. _________________ 1980 924 Turbo
www.instagram.com/garagecedric/ |
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Parias
Joined: 22 Jan 2020 Posts: 12 Location: Vejle
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Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2024 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you Cedric, this is type of an input I was looking forward to
I mainly like the Alps passes but I go there rarely, which means any local B-road with a nice view or forestry and a hill does an amazing job too.
What type of modifications you have in mind for 931 and how expensive and difficult these could be for beginner? It feels part of the appeal to build something and then use it. Though I wonder how it will compare to 944 n/a and if worth the time and money. _________________ 968CS
Was:
924 80'
924 82'
944 84'
"Standing in line is easy, finding your way isn't." |
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924RACR
Joined: 29 Jul 2001 Posts: 8846 Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA
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Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2024 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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I have a little time in a CGT - Dan Beckett's, back when - but mainly lots of 931 vs. a little 951 time...
In summary, I'd say the 951 is just a heavier, more substantial feeling car; a little more focused on autobahn cruising vs. the more nimble and direct 931.
I think I'd rather the 931 for the B roads, but the 951 for the motorways - with better noise insulation and comfort.
Either one has plenty of scoot, even unmodified, for the motorways - but more is always better!!
I'm now summer dailying my 82 931 (US, of course)... now with EFI (Microsquirt) conversion, 1 bar of boost, 951 IC, new factory dash, working AC on 134a, modern stereo... very enjoyable, my main remaining complaint (aside from a little remaining water leaks, some interior repair, and desperate need for paint) is the noise levels on the street; exhaust is managed well, but the general road noise level is still something I have to work on. It's a touch on the loud side to be desirable for longer drives (>1hr).
Otherwise it is/will be a lovely little car... _________________ Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype |
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Mclaren924
Joined: 13 Oct 2021 Posts: 199 Location: California
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Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2024 1:11 am Post subject: |
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924RACR wrote: | I have a little time in a CGT - Dan Beckett's, back when - but mainly lots of 931 vs. a little 951 time...
In summary, I'd say the 951 is just a heavier, more substantial feeling car; a little more focused on autobahn cruising vs. the more nimble and direct 931.
I think I'd rather the 931 for the B roads, but the 951 for the motorways - with better noise insulation and comfort.
Either one has plenty of scoot, even unmodified, for the motorways - but more is always better!!
I'm now summer dailying my 82 931 (US, of course)... now with EFI (Microsquirt) conversion, 1 bar of boost, 951 IC, new factory dash, working AC on 134a, modern stereo... very enjoyable, my main remaining complaint (aside from a little remaining water leaks, some interior repair, and desperate need for paint) is the noise levels on the street; exhaust is managed well, but the general road noise level is still something I have to work on. It's a touch on the loud side to be desirable for longer drives (>1hr).
Otherwise it is/will be a lovely little car... |
Currently restoring my 77 slicktop and have entire interior out and pulled down to painted floors and it's getting dynamat in every square inch i can fit it lol. Love that stuff in my rock crawlers and other restorations, makes a world of difference. This is a mod I do to almost any older car I buy but these seem to really need it with how old and defunct the old insulation material becomes. My Sebring gets warm around my legs after roughly 1 hr of driving and is rather uncomfortable if not moving with windows down.
To add some insight to question posed first. The 931 is very raw feeling as stated before, the 944/951 from my very limited experience has been a much more comfort focused design while still retaining that in touch feel you get with the 931. Part of this could easily be that most 931 are in much rougher condition than 951's. Would be interesting to drive two complete restored original ones back to back to compare. _________________ 1980 931 "Salt" Bucket wannabe racer (not started)
1979 924 "Pepper" Restoration (almost done)
1980 924 "Donnie" (Parts car)-DEAD
1977 924 Slicktop "Pennie" Bucket turned Silver Spoon |
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Parias
Joined: 22 Jan 2020 Posts: 12 Location: Vejle
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Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2024 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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I appreciate your views points, thank you for sharing. Indeed driving either of these especially in summer is a tough job, but then again practical motivation to keep in shape
I think most reviews center on the performance aspects while for a thriving drive this is not the only requirement, right? Comfort of 944 Turbo, modernity and overall build is appealing. I also like new bumpers and used to think the dash is more practical but somewhat it feels bit too modern if that makes any sense. I really like the looks of 924 CGT but I get impression these cars are tricky to maintain. _________________ 968CS
Was:
924 80'
924 82'
944 84'
"Standing in line is easy, finding your way isn't." |
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morghen
Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 8947 Location: Romania
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Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2024 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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I had 3 931s and a CGT/S spec built car and i drove a few 951s over the years.
Having actually driven all of them in can say (from memory) the following:
951 feels the most boring to me, yes quick car but in a very boring way.
Interior is also boring for me.
Car also sounds boring but exterior looks amazing for me. It is more comfortable for cruising but also feels heavier than the other two...which isnt a good thing in a sports car.
931 feels the lightest, is the slowest but somehow its the best because its not a super high value car (yet) so you can still enjoy it for what it is.
Its still a good GT car, just not a high speed cruiser like the 951 can be. Its problem is similar to the 924, its maintenance cost vs its market value make it a choice out of passion rather than an economic reason.
CGT would be somewhere in between, its basically a 931 with a bit more power, a bit more consistency and slightly different behavior in-out of corners due to wider track. The wider stance does make it feel very special, more special than any of the other two. Its about the same to maintain as a 931 but being a high value car you may have an issue to park it at the grocery store or use it as an every day car like you would with the other two.
CGT would probably be the best for me, but its past its "useable" time now..and into "collectible" so driving one as a sports car was 15-20 years ago.
931 is still a cheap car so it may be worth driving and enjoying..while we can. _________________ https://www.the924.com |
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Cedric
Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 2677 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2024 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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Mclaren924 wrote: | 924RACR wrote: | I have a little time in a CGT - Dan Beckett's, back when - but mainly lots of 931 vs. a little 951 time...
In summary, I'd say the 951 is just a heavier, more substantial feeling car; a little more focused on autobahn cruising vs. the more nimble and direct 931.
I think I'd rather the 931 for the B roads, but the 951 for the motorways - with better noise insulation and comfort.
Either one has plenty of scoot, even unmodified, for the motorways - but more is always better!!
I'm now summer dailying my 82 931 (US, of course)... now with EFI (Microsquirt) conversion, 1 bar of boost, 951 IC, new factory dash, working AC on 134a, modern stereo... very enjoyable, my main remaining complaint (aside from a little remaining water leaks, some interior repair, and desperate need for paint) is the noise levels on the street; exhaust is managed well, but the general road noise level is still something I have to work on. It's a touch on the loud side to be desirable for longer drives (>1hr).
Otherwise it is/will be a lovely little car... |
Currently restoring my 77 slicktop and have entire interior out and pulled down to painted floors and it's getting dynamat in every square inch i can fit it lol. Love that stuff in my rock crawlers and other restorations, makes a world of difference. This is a mod I do to almost any older car I buy but these seem to really need it with how old and defunct the old insulation material becomes. My Sebring gets warm around my legs after roughly 1 hr of driving and is rather uncomfortable if not moving with windows down.
To add some insight to question posed first. The 931 is very raw feeling as stated before, the 944/951 from my very limited experience has been a much more comfort focused design while still retaining that in touch feel you get with the 931. Part of this could easily be that most 931 are in much rougher condition than 951's. Would be interesting to drive two complete restored original ones back to back to compare. |
The US seems to have its share of rough 931s for sure, Its much easier to find a nice one here. I drove a low mileage time capsule 931 s2 a few years ago, still had the 80s music in the casette player. It was really smooth, comfortable and nice to drive. The guy bought it out of a barn/garage and used it as his only car for going to work, worked perfectly for that . I prefer them with updated suspension and seating position though for driving fun
The AC thing is of course a thing, they do get really hot inside on warm days, its very rare to find a 931 with AC, at least over here _________________ 1980 924 Turbo
www.instagram.com/garagecedric/ |
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Beartooth
Joined: 05 Apr 2022 Posts: 250 Location: Roberts, MT
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Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2024 5:50 am Post subject: |
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I love driving my 931 - just drove to town to get coffee - it's not bad even just for runabout duties, assuming the weather is decent. Driving in the rain hasn't been too bad except the wipers suck, and I wouldn't be surprised if it did well in the snow too. The heat/vent setup does hole it back, but not a lot since I've got other cars I can drive. I like not having the extra weight of AC, and I just take the other car when it gets too hot. So it's kind of a fair weather car, but I drove it as late as December last year, and started driving it again in April.
I haven't driven a cross-section of Porsches, so I can't compare, but I'll echo the comments about the 931 feeling light. I just got my 560SEC on the road again (long story), and while it would probably match or maybe exceed the 931 in raw cornering (it's lowered with stiffer springs and upgraded shocks and rear sway bar, plus wider tires, obviously), you just wouldn't even think of trying to chuck it around for fun like the 931 invites you to. It sounds like the 951 is a step in that direction. The 931 is no barn-burner (especially off the line), but it is a real driving experience.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels the later 944 interior is bland. The earlier interior is definitely retro, while the later interior is just sort of... there. That said, I suspect the 951 would be a better daily driver - especially if you're dealing with weather extremes. Power steering is another "don't need it" for occasional driving that you might want the more you drove, especially if you think you'd be going to wider tires. Mine isn't bad as far as ease of driving, but it might be get to be with a lot of around-town and such. I've got 195 ties; I hear going much wider can make it a bear. Another issue would be if you got a 931 and decided it wasn't fast enough. The 951 would almost certainly be more expensive, but that'd flip in a big way if you souped up a 931 to match the 951 (unless you're very handy).
At the end of the day, it's partly priorities, partly what you can find, and partly what you can afford. I've found the right car just clicks when you find it, so if it doesn't speak to you immediately, keep looking. In either case, don't trivialize any significant defects, even if the price is right. Mine took a long time to get to where I could drive it, and even on a much nicer, driveable car, a few choice issues could take months to sort out. On the brakes, if you're looking at a five-lug 931, you'll have all the braking you'll need. Mine has the old disk/drum, which is a negative, but they're adequate for what I do. Lastly, if you find a great deal, don't be afraid to jump on it even if it's not quite what you're looking for. If they price is right, you should have no problem selling it when the right thing comes along - maybe even come out ahead. _________________ 1980 931 diamond in the rough |
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Parias
Joined: 22 Jan 2020 Posts: 12 Location: Vejle
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Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2024 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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Another question, I have seen an advert for 924CGT where owner has changed ignition system to Mittelmotor electronic ignition. It seems that this engines are at significant risk of damage when running on original system. Is this the case? _________________ 968CS
Was:
924 80'
924 82'
944 84'
"Standing in line is easy, finding your way isn't." |
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Cedric
Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 2677 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2024 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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Parias wrote: | Another question, I have seen an advert for 924CGT where owner has changed ignition system to Mittelmotor electronic ignition. It seems that this engines are at significant risk of damage when running on original system. Is this the case? |
Not really, the original system is actually more sophisticated and safer in a few ways since it has a crank trigger and also retard timing at high intake temps. But parts can be difficult, especially back when the crank sensors where not available. The CGT specific ignition box is super rare aswell. Its very similar to a gen 2 turbo, pretty much the hole car is including the engine. _________________ 1980 924 Turbo
www.instagram.com/garagecedric/ |
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morghen
Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 8947 Location: Romania
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Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2024 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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They probably replaced it because the crank sensor died and you cant buy a new replacement out of a store like other parts.
Mittelmotor is a very good and knowledgeable company so what they did isnt bad, and in fact reduces the risk of getting stranded with the car if the crank sensor was to die on you mid trip somewhere in the Alps
That ignition that they installed is also programable and Mittlemotor has good knowhow about how to program the ignition on the 924CGT as they have some amazing CGT cars built.
Is the system actually more performant that the factory? Not really, as Cedric said the sensor is on the cam rather on the crank and this adds the error induced by the belt. Is this significant for a road car? I dont think so, for example the vw corrado runs a similar setup from the factory and does just fine even with increased power.
If their system is stable, which as far as i know it is, then this is a very good and original looking solution.
Alternatively, we have our own k-jet and ignition upgrade here on this board.
Now this is truly a more performant and capable system. But it looks a bit further different than the factory, still very similar but a knowledgeable person can tell the difference.
Details in the link of my signature if you want to have a look. _________________ https://www.the924.com |
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