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Intercooler or bust..
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Carrera RSR  



Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 2003
Location: Somerset, UK

PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cold 'ram' air is wasted on a turbo. Super efficient IC is far more important cooling the post turbo hot air. At 1.0bar you are pumping 120degC post turbo regardless of pre turbo temp.
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1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, K27/26 3257 6.10 hybrid turbo, 951 FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife
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Then www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=31252
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CÚdric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1994
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice to hear something from you, car seems to run really well, but your camera is crap, was it really the best you could find Would be nice to see more of your car further on !


Would be interesting with some GPS logs to see how fast the car really is, and compare to my own car. Is it possible?

Appart from debris getting into the intake i would mostly be worried about the added pressure loss, which will cost compressor performance. Since you run a fixed boost pressure lower intake charge temp will mostly be compensated by higher turbo speed, but according to my data pretty small changes (1k rpm for 5 degC on a 1bar boosted 931). Pressure drop will probably be a more important factor.
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2034
Location: MI

PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CÚdric wrote:
Nice to hear something from you, car seems to run really well, but your camera is crap, was it really the best you could find Would be nice to see more of your car further on !


Would be interesting with some GPS logs to see how fast the car really is, and compare to my own car. Is it possible?

Appart from debris getting into the intake i would mostly be worried about the added pressure loss, which will cost compressor performance. Since you run a fixed boost pressure lower intake charge temp will mostly be compensated by higher turbo speed, but according to my data pretty small changes (1k rpm for 5 degC on a 1bar boosted 931). Pressure drop will probably be a more important factor.


Those videos are old..

I don't know what I'm going to do with the CAI/ram... It's just something I tried.. I will probably keep some aspect of the CAI in some form or another but as of now I have no idea what I will be able to make work..

Iv'e been busy with life shit, got my moms new house done and her moved in before winter and have been working odd jobs a lot and working on my own house etc. etc.. Had to do a bunch of "adulting" (as my sister likes to say, has a baby now) so the 931 got put on the back burner for a while..

I have also greatly expanded my redneck shed/garage so it may get some work done this winter..

What I need to do next is get my new fuel distributor mounted..
With the engine head off I have a lot of room and access to the FD area.. I may have to lower it's mounting for hood clearance, not sure yet..

The new FD has a much larger intake on it so I don't know if I will be able to make it work with the OEM intake aircleaner housing but I want to..

See airbox top here...

I'll have to make something like that or an adaptor from the FD to the original airbox but I have to get mounting and hood clearance out of the way first..
The FD and airbox on mine will not be reversed like the GTS but more like OEM 931, I hope.. I want to keep it OEM looking kinda, maybe..

I don't want to have to go through the hood like a muscle car ram air but if I can't get hood clearance... idk.. I think I can keep it low enough, hope..

That video was one of the last runs before I tore it down, my HG was starting to leak compression into my coolant a little bit every time after a thorough thrashing so that is the end of that stage of tune..
Like the video says, it's not going to go back together the same..

Anyway as far as CAI/RAM theory my thought is that a compressor works to create a pressure differential and will create X deferential per RPM.. Pressure differential being related to temp and pressure before the compressor to after the compressor, so I figure the lower temp, higher pressure, I can get before the compressor if it is creating the same differential I'd get more compressor output for the same input energy with better quality compressor intake air for the same differential..

I guess it doesn't really matter if you are going to open your WG to limit boost anyway..

BTW at one point in time it did have better mounting than zip ties but it came apart and went back together a bunch of times
I figure if I can get the concept together and working with whatever materials I have then in the future I can upgrade my intake materials like piping, clamps, and couplers/adaptors AFTER I know how to make it work so I don't ruin expensive materials prototyping changing this and that..

To do..
Finish FD adaptor sandwich and mount..
Put head back together..
Intake with IAT, MAP, TPS, electric idle valve, etc.. (All OEM intake and fueling components besides the manifold and injectors are obsolete, just the new FD and sensors/electronics..
Fuel lines siamese 8-4..
Should "run" with no electronics on a completely flat fuel curve, electronics to adjust curve realtime with tunerstudio, cis-e..
Wire all sensors and ECUs, install, tune.

Crap ton of stuff to do to make it "run" again.. But I've pretty much bought everything already.. Porsche pieces coming out my ears..

If it "runs" again before NEXT WINTER that will be fine with me, I'm in no hurry, it is sitting safe and secure..

I'm not going to get rid of it..
Some times I loose interest and do other things for a while.. Get burnt out on it, but it will always be there when I come back to it..

Might have it "finished" in what, another 3 years, maybe 5.. Don't know, don't really care.. I don't need it for a "car", I have cars.. I looks very pretty sitting in my shop and makes for great conversation.. I've never even registered the thing for plates..

I may make more crappy Porsche related videos for screwing off purposes.. The best camera I have is an I 5C, same as the others, subie videos were taken with my I6, but I'm not working out of town anymore so I sold it for a profit, he he..

Carrera RSR wrote:
Cold 'ram' air is wasted on a turbo. Super efficient IC is far more important cooling the post turbo hot air. At 1.0bar you are pumping 120degC post turbo regardless of pre turbo temp.


My compressor is just starting to get into its efficient range at the same time yours is just starting to pump heat..

morghen wrote:
That air intake is way too low...if you get into any kind of water your engine is scrap...+ as you can see you pick up all the dead stuff that will go to your filter really fast.


Pretty much yep...

If it were to stay that way it would need a contingency plan.. Like maybe a bra to cover the scoop, or a Y with a flapper to divert paths..

By all rights I should have blown one up by now you'd think..
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2034
Location: MI

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pics died here but I just found out that they are still good on rennlist so I'm dropping the link here and in the OP..

https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-944-951-968-forum/876941-hybrid-turbo-and-fmic-on-931-a.html

For posterity sake, yes this setup works..

Also, maybe this should have been in Performance Upgrades instead of GD..
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