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CÚdric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1861
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fasteddie313 wrote:
Mercedes 420 or 560 fuel distributor and upper AFM..

I think I could adjust my idle screw more lean and then hit it with more VE to get a little plate travel back if I needed to but probably don't..

I'm thinking about how to put an EGT (or TIT gauge) and a backpressure sensor into my manifold while it is still installed on the car.. Maybe some day..

A million sensors sound fun but they are a bit of a pita to do..

I just went to the post office and gas station.. Suppose I'll go load my new map and burn some of that gas..


It seems to work well now with the setup you have. You have headroom for much more fun as it is You wont be fuel system limited for a while at least. Is it a 2664 or 2667 compressor?

I actually bought an EGT, but did never install it, my plan was to put it on top of the flat surface above the collector, a perfect position for an EGT sensor. Back pressure is more nice to have than need to have, since its not as critical for the hardware, more of a performance indication.

Moving around the sensor is an alternative solution, if you think that your compressor is running out of steam, make a bung and move it there for a while to do some analysis. Then you dont need to add wiring etc.
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 1743
Location: MI

PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CÚdric wrote:
Fasteddie313 wrote:
Mercedes 420 or 560 fuel distributor and upper AFM..

I think I could adjust my idle screw more lean and then hit it with more VE to get a little plate travel back if I needed to but probably don't..

I'm thinking about how to put an EGT (or TIT gauge) and a backpressure sensor into my manifold while it is still installed on the car.. Maybe some day..

A million sensors sound fun but they are a bit of a pita to do..

I just went to the post office and gas station.. Suppose I'll go load my new map and burn some of that gas..


It seems to work well now with the setup you have. You have headroom for much more fun as it is You wont be fuel system limited for a while at least. Is it a 2664 or 2667 compressor?

I actually bought an EGT, but did never install it, my plan was to put it on top of the flat surface above the collector, a perfect position for an EGT sensor. Back pressure is more nice to have than need to have, since its not as critical for the hardware, more of a performance indication.

Moving around the sensor is an alternative solution, if you think that your compressor is running out of steam, make a bung and move it there for a while to do some analysis. Then you dont need to add wiring etc.


Interesting idea to just move the sensor around..

The compressor is a 2667 but it also has a small #4 turbine housing so that's why I kinda worry about backpressure.. I don't know what a #4 can flow..

I've taken 3 points of VE out at the top now and I'm still dropping into the low 10s... See how my VE table in the top right there tapers down after 4050 trying to keep that AFR up..

Has me suspicious that I might have a small boost leak somewhere making me rich on top..

Hmmmm...

Seems to have worked at low boost to keep it up though..
About 12.0 AFR all the way across 150KPA..


Might be leaking a little boost over 10psi or so dropping my AFR?

Pulled a bunch of gears up a hill pretty good, enought to get my IC up to 115 degrees F..


But you see that little AFR spike every time I shift and get back into it?
I don't know what the heck is causing that.. I thougt it was airplate swing but it does not seem to corrolate to any bounce in the airplate position logs..

Hmmmm....

Beat the crap out of it good again and it didn't break though so that's a +..
Coolant temp stays nice..
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 1743
Location: MI

PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aww crap I might have found the culprit.. Yellow line on 2nd chart..


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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 1743
Location: MI

PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FIXED IT!!!FIXED IT!!!FIXED IT!!!FIXED IT!!!FIXED IT!!!

Look no spikes no more after the tps slams open!!



All this time I was thinking that this was just something I was going to have to live with with CIS and it was this stupid accel enrichment doing it to me this hole time???

How the heck was it accel enleaning me?
But whatever, now it's fixed and my AFRs drop right to rock bottom with NO BOUNCE when I stab the throttle..

How the heck it was giving me 1.7ms of accel pw and how the heck that was making it leaner instead of richer I do not know but now it is gone!!
Amazing..

Shit I can try for 20lbs of boost now that those spikes are gone!!!!!! <not really

Woot very happy..
This problem was one of my biggest worries!
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
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Location: MI

PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, think I have a boost leak over 1 bar..

No amount of pulling VE is raising my AFR at high boost and I'm having a problem building anything over 1 bar of boost..
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CÚdric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1861
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im glad you sorted the afr peak, wouldn't have thought it was accel enrich since it was on steady full throttle..

Have you though about pressure testing the system? I will do that before i put everything together. Will plug the ends and put an air nipple on it so i can pressurize it. I think i also might have a small leak.
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 1743
Location: MI

PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CÚdric wrote:
Im glad you sorted the afr peak, wouldn't have thought it was accel enrich since it was on steady full throttle..


I feel kinda stupid not having been able to figure that out untill now but it's not like I got much for good hints that it was that since I still have no idea how accel enrichment was making me lean instead of rich..
But no more of that little AFR bounce now, it drops straight to boost AFR now like magic..

CÚdric wrote:

Have you though about pressure testing the system? I will do that before i put everything together. Will plug the ends and put an air nipple on it so i can pressurize it. I think i also might have a small leak.


This is a great plan but figuring out how and where to put ends on my intake to pressurize it will take some fiddling..

I think I will inspect all my connections and tighten my clamps but you know maybe it's time that I put some real T-bolt clamps on it instead of just hose clamps or maybe double hose clamp everything I can with what I have.. Now that I am going to be putting some real pressure into it..

I am actually more surprised that I haven't had any more major boost pipe blowouts than I have than I am surprised that it is probably leaking somewhere just a little only at high pressure..

I think I've only ever blew my TB connection and one after IC connection before the lower charge tube this whole time but both of those blew off good to where their was no question what happened..



I'm thinking about maybe selling my entire original FMIC setup to someone, mounts, piping, IC, BOV, maybe even the Trubo/compressor with it if needed, with instruction to where it would be about as bolt on of a kit as possible, and just make it all over again with upgraded components now that I know how to make it all happen..
Then they could upgrade it to T-bolts or whatever parts they want based on my copy..

It's not made out of expensive components but it holds up pretty well and my engineering might be worth a little something enough for me to buy whatever I need to make it again.. It would also be a very good start for someone to put it all together then upgrade what parts of it they would like to after they have a working system installed..

This exact intercooler fits like a dream and looks about as good as it can get from the front So I would just buy another one exactly like it..

I would rather pass my original prototype on to someone else as a working system they could then improve upon and make a whole new one myself rather than just have the original lost to the world replaced a piece at a time..

Maybe chuck21401 would be a good candidate to install it and give him a big jumpstart on tuning to get his car faster and safer..

Maybe I'm crazy..
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 8044
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Inspired by your efforts but driven by my laziness i contemplated a plan to try to cure the bad fueling going on in my 924.

So what i'm going to try to do is take your idea that is already pretty simple and make it even simpler.

Here's what i'll try to do to my 924:

1. Uninstall WUR and throw it as far away as possible.
2. Use Passat B3 KE-Jetronic fuel distributor on the 924 AFM body.
3. Use Arduino to read the coolant temp resistor at the back of the 924 head.
4. Make Arduino run a neverending loop checking the coolant temp and adjusting the voltage that adjusts the control pressure so that i get the desired warm-up cycle to be reliable and also adjustable by software.

If the Arduino has two inputs i can later on read a MAP sensor and do a two input - one output function to inject a bit more fuel if needed.
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Dutch924-racer  



Joined: 23 Jul 2007
Posts: 1026
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why not take a complete ke-jetronic system including the ecu?

There are also later ke-jetronic systems with lambda and knock input



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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 1743
Location: MI

PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you tune the stock ECUs? IDK..

You can make an ECU out of an arduino I guess but I don't know anything about that.. It sure as shootin works with a MS ECU though..

If you get a KE head you don't need the WUR or FV anymore, just an ECU, maybe not even a cold start valve because you can make the ECU do that too..
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