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Brake Pad Suggestions

 
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MikeJinCO  



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 790
Location: Maysville, Colorado

PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 3:15 am    Post subject: Brake Pad Suggestions Reply with quote

Went to driver school last weekend, had a very good instructor. The track I was at is PPIR in Colorado Springs which is not a brake heavy course. I'm about to get the car going, running vintage racing, very gentlemanly and non aggresive. Since I have never driven race grade car before, and I built the car I will probably be driving rather slowly for a year or two. Car will be about 2300lb and have maybe 140-145 HP, Elgin cam, 10-1 Comp, dual 45 DCOE, header. GAZ Suspension and early 944 5 lug brakes, Nitto 01 205 tires. To start with I just have to get out on the track and cruise around a bit to make sure nothing falls off.

Problem is what to get for brakes as considering I drove a stock NA with limited brakes I don't really know how to use REAL BRAKES well. So the question is what pads to use. If I go straight to KFP's will I get them hot enough to work? I could get some Hawk HPS or the Porterfield RS-4 to start or there are some Mintex semi-Metallic. The Porterfield R4-1 say they work pretty well at 200 where the real race brakes want to be 450 minimum. Which direction should I go-to start with???

The pads in there now are whatever came with the 5 lug setup I bought, so who knows, probably some aftermarket organic.
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CÚdric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1861
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 6:02 am    Post subject: Re: Brake Pad Suggestions Reply with quote

MikeJinCO wrote:
Went to driver school last weekend, had a very good instructor. The track I was at is PPIR in Colorado Springs which is not a brake heavy course. I'm about to get the car going, running vintage racing, very gentlemanly and non aggresive. Since I have never driven race grade car before, and I built the car I will probably be driving rather slowly for a year or two. Car will be about 2300lb and have maybe 140-145 HP, Elgin cam, 10-1 Comp, dual 45 DCOE, header. GAZ Suspension and early 944 5 lug brakes, Nitto 01 205 tires. To start with I just have to get out on the track and cruise around a bit to make sure nothing falls off.

Problem is what to get for brakes as considering I drove a stock NA with limited brakes I don't really know how to use REAL BRAKES well. So the question is what pads to use. If I go straight to KFP's will I get them hot enough to work? I could get some Hawk HPS or the Porterfield RS-4 to start or there are some Mintex semi-Metallic. The Porterfield R4-1 say they work pretty well at 200 where the real race brakes want to be 450 minimum. Which direction should I go-to start with???

The pads in there now are whatever came with the 5 lug setup I bought, so who knows, probably some aftermarket organic.


With good racing pads theres not much of a difference bewteen 5 and 4 bolt brakes on track, mostly pedal feel to be honest. Both of the setups can be punished for hours and hours.

I can really really recommend Hawk HP+, not the most agressive pad, but i have yet to overheat them on both N/A (also in endurance racing) and on my turbo on track, and my 931 has 40 more hp and more weight than your car. They take a couple of retardations to come up to temp but thats it, then they work great. They have also lasted a long time on my cars. I tried more expensive race pads but honestly the difference in performance was tiny and difference in price was huge.

Dont forget to rebuild the calipers regularliy, people tend to forget that, but after a couple of seasons the seals are crisp and the piston cant retract properly, and you will overheat regardless of pad. If you are very serious you can add brake cooling hoses to increase pad life, but with proper pads it will be very very long anyway.

And dont forget the brake technique, very important, try to break hard and for a short time, a rookie mistake is drag the brakes and that puts alot of heat transfer into the pads.
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Fifty50Plus  



Joined: 28 Feb 2008
Posts: 1041
Location: Washington DC area

PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike,
I've been using Porterfield AP 251 and 252 R4 pads for the past 4 years. Work great and last more than a season (5-9 races). fronts wear about twice as fast as the rears. No ducting on my cars.
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1982 924 NA race car - Sold
1982 924 Turbo almost a PoS
1981 924 Turbo a real PoS, new engine
1982 924 Turbo nice body, blown engine
1972 911 E race car - going to Vintage
Various 944s to become IT-S race car
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MikeJinCO  



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 790
Location: Maysville, Colorado

PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cedric-Thanks for the advice. In the street car I have no name organic in front and Porterfield R4S in the back and it always stops, but the brake pedal is really unfomfortable. This cars track days are now over, but changing to good flex lines would probably have helped along with the R4S pads. I have wondered what changing from the 19mm bore MC to a 21 bore would do, A '78 Rabbit/Golf has one that is 20.64-just a comment.

50-the R4's might be great, but remember I'm a rookie and this car which is rebuilt completely from the tub up by inexperienced me hasn't turned a wheel under power in 20 years so at first some gentleness will be required. It is essentially a prototype, that is the issue here. I can't to go out at first and break a race pad in properly, I have to drive it like almost like a street car at first just to make sure nothing falls off.
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Poco a Poco, '80 future track car
'77 924
cricketdesigns.com
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CÚdric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1861
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pedal feel is much better with the 5lugs, even though both systems work well. The drums need to be adjusted constantly to have correct play in relation to the drums, which is a bit annoying.

Anyway, pads are really everything. I tried driving with an endurance racing team who tried more std types of pads, they lasted about 40 minutes on track. Then i persuaded them to buy hawk hp+ and they could do several 6 and 12h races on the same pads. The difference really is that big. And the hawk hp+ are really not a super racy pad, works well on the street aswell. Although produces lots of dust.
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